NPK Uralvagonzavod (UVZ) adopted a new development strategy until 2025. What share of the corporation plans to occupy in the civil and military markets, whether sanctions prevent it and what it was possible to understand after the break-in of military equipment in Syria, "general director of the UVZ Alexander Potapov told Kommersant.
- How do sanctions affect the UVZ?
- So far, we have not experienced any real problems. Sanctions keep us in a certain tone - I believe that this stimulates the work of the design idea and promotes the development of its own production within the import substitution program.
- Has not any project been closed?
- No, it was not like that.
- And the deputies did not come to you with the words "everything is lost, chief"?
- There is no such, I speak honestly. There is a story: one transport company said that it will not buy products from us, because it does not want to be subject to sanctions. And then they talked and she came to her senses. And we are working.
- You work at UVZ a little more than a year. Already decided on the strategy?
- In early April, the board of directors of the state corporation Rostek took place, where we reported on the draft strategy of the UVZ until 2025. The first version of the strategy was approved at the end of 2016, but after the decision to include the UVZ in Rostech, a road map was developed, which was successfully completed at the end of 2017, including by transferring the entire block of shares to the property of Rostek . In this roadmap, one of the points was the requirement to develop and then approve our direction of development in relation to the strategy, which was approved in 2015 by Rostekhom in order to integrate and be in a single system of coordinates. All this was reported and considered on the board of the state corporation and covers the period until 2025.
The main parameters that we have laid out are revenue growth of 10% annually with an output of about 255 billion rubles for 2025. Obviously, we have two key areas - the implementation of the state defense order and the production of civilian products. The parameters of the output of civil products are linked with the parameters of diversification, indicated by the president in late 2016. For the time being, we aim to achieve the share of civilian products in the total revenue of 42%.
- By 2025?
- Of course, this is the strategy. As we reported to the president during his visit to the UVZ, only by the plant itself in 2017, the share of civilian products in our revenues was 40%. But we understand that life is diverse, and in the near future a certain decline is possible, the demand for our railway products may drop. Therefore, we take all this into account in strategy and tactics, and we work out the civilian component in different directions.
On the military, everything is extremely simple and understandable: the weapons program was approved until 2027. We understand what orders are coming from the Ministry of Defense for at least five years. We have worked out and preached the ideology of long contracts of a full life cycle: modernization and production, and, very important, after-sales service, that is, the creation of a service system that will be based on those repair plants that were transferred to us from the Ministry of Defense , as well as on the creation of new competence centers.
The board of "Rosteha" was actively interested in the civil segment. Why? Because within the framework of diversification it is assumed that the ratio of civil and military products should be 50% by 50% by 2030. Moreover, this is in line with the strategic task that Vladimir Putin set before the enterprises of the OPK. Diversification is the creation of a sustainable model. To do this, we need to understand the strategy for the development of the civil market, the segment on which we will work, and how we will fill it. Somewhere we are the only performers, somewhere there is a competitive environment, which is also good, somewhere we have to open our new markets or new directions that will allow us to diversify business and production.
- Are there any benchmarks for the ratio of revenues in foreign markets and domestically?
- In terms of military products, everything is clearly defined: parity is stipulated. However, "parity" is also not very correct to say. It is necessary to specify, parity in what: in monetary or in quantitative expression? This is important in terms of exchange rate differences. While we proceed from monetary expression. And it is clear that our traditional markets, in this case, the Military Technical Cooperation, require some modification. We should not lose to opponents or those who want to enter our traditional markets. For example, Western partners. This is a problem that must be solved: for example, in the former Warsaw Pact countries, we are replaced by what is bad, we need to take this niche. Just recently I was in an African country and learned that the Serbs are very successful and well-run there. I was happy for the Serb brothers, but I was disappointed: why not us? I gave instructions, and now we will return this direction.
Or here is the philosophy that Narendra Modi preaches today - Make in India. Somehow thinking about this, I suddenly realized that the program of import substitution and import-dependence is somewhere akin to the "Make in India" program, paradoxical as it may seem. And today we can also use the mechanism of import substitution and import-dependence in the implementation of our internal tasks. And once the external contour offers such a position, we absolutely must actively work it out and present to colleagues and strategic partners proposals that they can not refuse, create a competitive environment and do not invite the North Atlantic Alliance to these markets, conditionally speaking.
- Are we talking about binding agreements?
- What do we have for the Defense Ministry today? We work together to complete the life cycle. What we, in a good way, should preach on the MTC line? Yes the same. We must prescribe in the contracts for the future the remaining life cycle. Then there is no situation of carrying out tender activities and inviting other countries, because all this will be formalized and contracted. So we create an absolutely clear perspective for the next years, dozens of years.
- But the life cycle contract, as a rule, is quite expensive for the buyer. What can he get in return?
- Contractual obligations, apparently, should be provided with certain preconditions that will hedge the risks that a new supplier from another country will appear in this contract. Price parameters will be discussed. We also have a clear understanding of how the relationship with the customer is developing from year to year. It's just necessary to legally properly formalize and implement technically.
It is clear that it is impossible to predict that by 2020 we will ensure the supply, for example, of spare parts at such and such a price. Therefore, a very thorough long-term study should be conducted, and this is one of the ways to preserve markets. And then, we are still looking for new markets. Our products have shown themselves today in hot spots, the whole world saw it, and it is clear that they have certain thoughts that I hope should be realized in specific applications that will come to FSMTC, and we will implement them.
The ideology of the full life cycle is not only an ideology in the military technical cooperation, state defense order and special products. We advocate the same approach with traditional strategic partners in civilian life. We have a very constructive relationship with Russian Railways, and we are working out a mechanism for long-term contacts, we are developing a price formula. And not only with Russian Railways, but also with our main potential buyers.
"Call them?"
- I will not sign them, because after all we are "slightly sanctioned" and people do not always like it when their names get into the media. This is a matter of supplying spare parts, a clear understanding of repair documentation, a profound philosophy of working out what I believe has so far required refinement and alignment. This includes, inter alia, the possibility of creating joint service centers. Maybe we will come to this. But the main thing is that everyone has a desire to communicate and find common solutions. We talk with colleagues, including the possibility of joint access to foreign markets. Russian Railways may be the flagship, which comes to other countries, and we already together with them supply road-building equipment, wagons of different specifications, other services.
- Did your work in Syria open something new?
- Yes. We managed to organize the logistics of the supply of spare parts (tools, tools, accessories - "Kommersant") to ensure the combat readiness of troops. This is real work, it has produced results. Also, the designers have clarifications that will enhance the performance characteristics of our equipment.
- The creation of an armored holding company in the strategy is recorded?
- No, because this level is higher - Rosteha with the Ministry of Industry and Trade, the Ministry of Defense and the military-industrial complex. On paper, you can write whatever you want, but in reality it must correlate with the strategies of other enterprises. This issue goes far beyond corporate governance, it concerns security and the implementation of the state program of armaments.
- What is the share of the market for wagons, trams, civil engineering equipment the company expects to occupy?
- The ambitious task is set: to get about 45-50% of the market by 2030. This is a maximum task. The work will be carried out, and already it is conducted quite systematically.
The country employs about 9 thousand trams, their park is worn out by 80%. It requires either replacement or modernization, and a deep one. There are three main producers, among them Uraltransmash UVZ. As part of the diversification of production, we can produce about 150 trams a year. Our colleagues are the same. But even if we assume that every year we will update 300 units, then, excuse me, how many years will the program take at the nine-thousandth park? All is enough. And enough from the point of view of the life cycle, and we understand that development is possible
The world goes to the fact that trams are an environmentally friendly, good, demanded vehicle. And maybe their number will grow. Our trams can already be found in Nizhny Tagil, Kazan and Kolomna. They are quite expensive - several times more expensive than an innovative car. Plus today there is a very correct position of the state in the person of the Ministry of Industry and Trade - it is subsidizing electric transport. We will definitely participate in it. Speaking about the market share, I will say that we want to take 50% too. How? It can be either an association with someone who has already been named, or the search for another strategic partner. For example, the same Czechs, who in Soviet times almost completely completed our market with trams. Therefore, options for a certain interaction are possible. Also within the framework of the Customs Union, a segment of production in Belarus appeared on the market. This must be taken into account. All this is our ambitious intention, which, I think, we will put into reality.
- And on road construction equipment?
- We are actively restoring the working capacity of the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant. I will not go into details, but there is a niche, not very big, unfortunately, but we will expand it. Here we are looking for strategic partners and strategic investors and we want to offer all within the same import substitution program, if there is a Russian analogue, not to buy Caterpillar or Korean and Chinese products. Of course, colleagues can tell us that the benchmark is a price-quality, but something needs to be started, and, in general, we have a good one, I would even say a good story and a tradition of production.
By the way, one of our customers is JSC Russian Railways and its subsidiary structure, with which we have already begun work. Also we released and showed on "Innoprom" an armored bulldozer. In hot spots, it can restore the national economy, and these hot spots are well known, we are actively working on them. The government helps, the Ministry of Industry and Trade does very well, I will not forget, of course, Rostekh. Now we have set the task to restore the production of wheeled and crawler excavators at UVZ. There were good designs. But then we put them on the shelf.
- And forgotten?
- Somehow it was not so. Now they have removed the shelves, the dust has been shaken off, updated, modernized. They are already being tested, and I hope that the UVZ will soon launch these excavators. Good. Price-quality must necessarily fit into the segment that exists from the point of view of the competitive environment.
In 2017, on the Day of the tankman, we signed a memorandum with the governor of the Sverdlovsk region that we are ready to restore production and ensure the supply of communal equipment. Here we also had operating time and production. We will restore and launch it: UVZ has a very good branch in Volchansk, about 1,000 people work there. Now it produces specialized platforms, mineral carriers, pellets. It is a city-forming enterprise of the city with a population of 10 thousand people. There are problems. But everyone's eyes are burning, a very good team, I really liked it, and we will develop it, load the plant with this kind of equipment.
Our Nizhny Novgorod Burevestnik has signed a licensing agreement with one of the American companies (Bulk Handling Systems, for the production of waste sorting plants - Kommersant) within the framework of SPIEF-2017, which, no matter what, is ready to continue cooperation. Now we are negotiating with a number of regions. We hope that in 2018 we will conclude several contracts to start production. Again, from the point of view of diversification, it is very good: if "Uraltransmash" is an artillery complex and is engaged in diversification in the form of production of trams, then "Burevestnik", also artillery, develops and prepares the program in the interests of municipalities.
- Speech about the transfer to you of the Ust-Katavsky car-building plant, which produces trams and is part of the structure of Roskosmos, does not go?
- We spoke with Roskosmos and discussed the creation of a single holding in other government offices. But with Ust-Katav from the point of view of the state approach the problem is that it is a city-forming enterprise. If you take a share, the question of social tension arises - or you have to offer some alternative. Therefore, if we do something together, we must give good concrete proposals. Now there are negotiations, elaborations, but at the initial stage.
- Can you specify the demand for wagons, trams, road construction and communal equipment you are targeting when you form an idea of the target market share?
- On the railway theme, we clearly understand that there are certain peaks of demand. The ones that were in 2016-2017 and partly pass to 2018 and, maybe, 2019, first of all, are connected with a large volume of spent recycling. The following years do not show the retirement of such a number of rolling stock. Therefore, the task for today is to smoothly form a portfolio of orders, so that it does not happen, as in previous years: at first it is dense, then empty. Do you remember how we let out 30 thousand cars each, and then dropped to three or five? It is unacceptable. Therefore, our philosophy is to maintain a slow but steady growth. If in 2017 we produced about 15 thousand cars, then we planned more than 17 thousand. In 2019, we will probably keep the same level.
But there is another component: we are talking about traditional gondola cars, but we should not forget about the expansion of the line. Therefore, today there is a relatively large amount of R & D, in which we work with new customers for new models, whether they are pellets, grain trucks or platforms, including in the interests of the Ministry of Defense. Ruler should be wide - this is the time. Two - we should not only talk directly about the release of cars, but also about providing them with spare parts. To build logistics so that our cars are in great demand in relation to others. Some competitors do it well, some do not.
- At the same time, you can influence your competitors through licensing agreements, which many have already had problems in 2017 ...
- We are very carefully starting to monitor relations with factories that had a license of the UVZ. When issuing a license, we are actually personally responsible for the quality and safety of traffic. Therefore, we must be absolutely sure that this license produces quality products. Previously, we did not follow the proper way, as a result, a large number of counterfeit products arose, which ultimately affected the quality and image of UVZ and its products. This, of course, is unacceptable.
Through the mechanism of licensing, we must form, including downloading your company - this is one point. The second point - we are very uncomfortable when there are, conditionally speaking, clones. With this we are also not ready to put up. We have re-signed four license agreements with traditional partners that have accepted the conditions regarding the exclusion of "clones" and the creation of normal civilized relations. In this case, there should be a unified approach. We do not have exclusive conditions: from you, I, for example, take a royalty of 3%, and with you - 100 rubles. unknown when.
All this is formalized in the form of a basic license agreement, according to which we work. Not with everyone we find a common language. Just recently, before reaching the final court decisions, we severed the license agreement with "Altayvagon" by mutual consent and we consider this absolutely correct. There is a lot of criticism on the car produced by "Altayvagon", which is operated in the Far East. We are extremely interested in having all our colleagues well, but also that if any problems arise, they are not projected onto us.
- You aspire to occupy half of the Russian production of cars, and what do you see the market share of components? Will it grow in the light of changes in your relationship with licensees?
- To make it clear, on the cart 18-100 we have not changed anything. Only in some way ordered. But as for the innovative trolley, then we are now very closely following the producers and have already signed agreements with a number of enterprises that recognize our licensing agreements.
But the spare parts market is not that big. We would like to see that counterfeit products do not fall on him, on a normal cart. After the dismantling of the cars, spare parts remained, which are now owned by the owners in warehouses and which they can use in normal production activities. Here I do not see any problems. And as for innovative things, we will simply very clearly and carefully look at the production capabilities of these enterprises, so that ideally there would be no marriage.
- Is it true that under new contracts a license is issued only for a year?
"Not really." We issue licenses for up to three years. Literally today this issue was discussed: all the contracts are mostly three-year old.
- Is there any mechanism for any long-term guarantees for licensees who will have to rebuild their production for the production of this cart?
- This is a good question, but the answer is very simple: we issue a license for ready-made production, for finished casting, for finished machining, for ready-made other technological redistributions. That is, the plant has already incurred certain investment costs and now comes and says: "Give us a license." He did not come to us and did not say: "Give us a license, and then we will incur investment costs." Of course, there are several vectors of development. First - work qualitatively, well, work with UVZ. The second is to hedge the risks and develop your products, conduct certification and enter the market with your product. And the third - hedge the risks in other areas of work that you can perform on this technological equipment.
- As for the trolley 18-100, the story of the introduction of a single repair documentation for it received a wide response. In the industry, they fear that the UVZ will solely control the production of components to the wagons. Will the market hold alternative manufacturers of casting and components?
- It's necessary to speak about repair design documentation like this. First, we are holders of the design documentation for the cart 18-100. We, of course, must be in certain standards, norms, they are defined. We do not in any way question the licensing agreements concluded by our colleagues, our enterprises operating in this market. Therefore, I do not see deep fears here. Another thing is that this documentation involves protecting the interests of the developer and should exclude the possibility of the appearance of "clones" and counterfeit. For example, now we with the Ministry of Transport are working out possible mechanisms for chipping. Developed even the possibility of equipping the GLONASS, it has not only positioning functions, but also a lot of other control functions, fixing temperature changes that can affect the trolley.
- GLONASS in every detail?
- No. There was such an idea, but there must be a reason, otherwise it can go anywhere. We are thinking about some new directions, new things, and before we do something, we will study the situation, do a survey, who needs GLONASS, what effect it gives, how much it costs and how to use it.
- How do you assess the noisy resonance of your licensing campaign?
- In my previous life, being in different positions, even in a terrible dream I could not imagine how the media can be used to solve specific problems. I have always treated and treated you with great respect, and this is confirmed by a thoughtful, correct position, especially in the federal media. If you take the local, the press leaves much to be desired. But I do not exclude that today certain groups of people, creating a certain negative trail, are solving their tasks.
We have such, remember, the film "Ivan Vasilievich changes profession", there was a wonderful dentist named Shpak, remember? "Suede jacket - three" and "all that is acquired by excessive work." So, with a number of companies, we simply break off relations and we will break, because we consider them unfair, we believe that these are not competitors, but parasites. And we know that someone is investing certain budgets in order to create an unstable balance, including on the UVZ, on the subject matter that we are now talking about. We know this and will act strictly within the law, strictly within the interests of UVZ Corporation, strictly in the interests of our consumers.
- But the range of enterprises that produce cars is narrowing, only UVZ and OVK remain on the market, and the concern of buyers is clear: it is more profitable for them that there are not two suppliers, but, for example, five or six.
- Correctly. We also want the same from our staffers. This is normal. In general, no one interferes or prohibits other factories, other design bureaus, to develop something of their own. At the same time, competition exists. Here, please, UVZ and HVAC. They are our competitors, and they encourage us to work better, just like we do them.
- Are you really going to open joint service centers with HVAC?
- We have our own trolley, we have our own. What will the creation of such centers give us? How will this be legally formalized? So the question at present is not worth it.
- And on the production of parts?
- If there is a task to optimize and unify something, then we must use positive experience. Only this positive experience should not go to the detriment, so that it does not become a hostage to competition.
- Do you support the strategy of transport engineering until 2030 regarding the introduction of fines for the operation of old cars?
- Here everything is very simple: every sandpiper praises its marsh. Of course, I need the company to download. If I am responsible for something else, I may have something else interesting.
- When does UVZ plan to bring cars to the market with a load of 27 tons per axle? At what stage is their development?
- An appropriate order was issued, a design team was created to develop the trolley, we are moving, including within the competitive environment. It's another matter what the prospect is, whether there will be many orders and how this will further shape the transportation market. We want to complete the work this year, next year we plan to withdraw.
- Do buyers have an interest?
- There is. There are also applications. Even the amount I know (laughs).
- What are the plans for the production of such cars for 2019?
"I'm not ready to talk about this right now." It will be incorrect: you need to get confirmation, certification and everything related to it. But the work is on. Moreover, in 2018, within the framework of state support, subsidies for 27 tons per axle are already envisaged.
- Buyers complain that the cars are very expensive. To what extent is the price formed, conditionally speaking, at the expense of metal or other third-party products and will the price increase continue?
- When I talked about long-term contracts, these are not empty words: we understand that we will work by the formula, and we work with several key partners and customers. To then form, if possible, a kind of universal price formula.
- You mean the price of the final product, the car?
- Of course.
- In it as a variable can be laid the price of metal in foreign markets and something else?
- That's right, of course. We come out on this plane. Moreover, I instructed my colleagues to work out this option: if you want to hedge with the rise in metal prices on the London Stock Exchange, let's consider that you will supply this metal to us. And then we will already form the prices based on this. We are very attentive to our costs, now we are considering a program to reduce overhead costs. But this should not lead to an increase in profitability, and the product itself must be profitable, and allow us to invest part of the money in new projects.
In the speeches of the head of Rostech, in its time, it was stated that a greater number of problems that arose, in particular, with the financial component, was brought about by the production of civilian products. I will not refute it in any way, but I understand that if we work below the cost, we will not go far. Therefore, the task is to minimize internal costs, including partially modernizing our production based on the outline of output for the next years, in order to understand what we will either fulfill the interest or return the main debt if it is a credit resource.
Today, while the main task is connected with the modernization of the T-72B3 tanks, but this can not continue indefinitely. At the same time, we understand that it is necessary to expand the line of non-large-scale contracts and in the civilian segment - about 150-300 pieces. To do this, we launched the 135th shop, before it was a military one, today is aimed at the production of civilian products. This is a vivid example of the conversion, which we reported to the president. We have prepared this production now at 1.2 thousand, and in general the annual program is designed for 2 thousand specialized wagons. There we lay down normal technologies, normal equipment, thereby reducing the cost of our products.
- And what else will be in this formula laid? What are the indicators?
- We want to maximally lay all the purchased products. And many agree with this. Neighbors buy pellets from us, they can also talk about introducing a price formula or taking into account the supply of components in the price. It's just not suitable for everyone, it's more about such large metallurgical companies, you can talk to them. And with others - what can you do if the price increases. Foreign states have introduced duties on the import of metal, it means that this will somehow affect our market and civil products. We have very metal-intensive products. Then, we need to reduce the amount of rejects in the production of components. We need to work out new designs that are more technological, more reliable. There was an elastic element for innovative trolleys with which problems arose, now control is improved, created stands that provide its control. All this is an ongoing process.
- Are you going to buy any wagon-building company?
- To buy? It's worth the money.
- You can also buy for a thank you.
"For thanks, please." To buy, you need to sell something or earn something, that was from what means. If someone wants to come to us for free - we'll look. After taking away for free, you can be in the position of the mean, who pays twice. We bought Yurga Machine-Building Plant for free, invested not one billion rubles, but the problem is not solved. This is not a reproach, but an example. In the Soviet period, he produced an artillery component, and this was one of the motivations, but we did not pay anything, but got problems. Of course, the plant can certainly be developed. Deliveries to the countries of Asia and North Africa are already being considered.
- What's the problem?
- The problem is simple: it produces mining equipment, which is in demand today in the market, it would seem, but for some reason they are buying the European, and above all Polish. When I realized this and found out, to put it mildly, I was very surprised. Therefore, a number of appeals have been made to those who regulate these processes, paid attention. At the same time, all companies do not fall under the 223-FZ (on public procurement .- "Kommersant"), they both want and buy. Therefore, when I say that we are ready to consider offers for free, it is rather cheese in a mousetrap. Of course, we will study everything.
- For money - no?
"We need resources to develop our existing production, solve our problems, including in the implementation of the strategy.
- Is the history of UVZ-Logistic closed?
- We have sold the asset, the final settlement will be made within several years. Given the existing economic realities, this is by no means the worst option.
- Did this structure justify itself?
- For the transition period, yes rather than no. It was a salvation. As for the project economics, there were difficulties there, but it's not right for me to speak about it now.
- How do you assess the financial standing of the UVZ?
- Consolidated loss for 2016 was 4.2 billion rubles, and in 2017 brought a profit of about 1.3 billion rubles. Any more a minus. In general, we will have a profit, although it was given very hard. Previous years gave good profitability on contracts in the field of military-technical cooperation, and profitability on state defense order and civilian production leaves much to be desired. We reduced costs, did a lot of work to restructure the loan portfolio.
- Have you refinanced?
- Yes, in this issue, Rostekh helped promptly.
- In Novikombank?
- No, although this bank also helped us. I can say that by 2017, due to close cooperation with federal bodies and the government, first of all I am grateful to the Ministry of Finance, an order was issued that allowed the loan agreements to be ceded with preservation of the state guarantee. Thanks for this, and thank you very much. This maneuver allowed us to conduct active negotiations with a number of banks, which, of course, do not have such a percentage of the rate that we would like to have. Personally, I think 10.5% per annum - it's expensive under state guarantees.
Some banks say that we have a CBA rate and own margin. And the margin for all is different: for someone - 2%, for someone - 1%. The key rate is now 7.25%, we set the task to go below 9%, now we have a weighted average interest rate of 9.2%. The profit that we received, including related to the savings on the interest rate for 2017, about 2.5 billion rubles., Which is not bad. And in general, the chicken grains on the grain.
- How does the system of authorized banks work in the new conditions?
- For us this system is basically reduced to three banks with which we work. If now the construction changes in connection with the reference bank, let's see how it will look. There are positive moments: they are reduced to the ordering of funds within a separate state contract. In addition, it deprives certain hotheads of the opportunity to use these funds for other purposes.
However, the law does not prohibit payment from one separate account in the interests of another in the framework of the state defense order. But these operations, as a rule, are not carried out by banks, and for us it is a big enough problem. Look: if I have one contract, roughly speaking, for 100 tanks, then it's good, but if I have five contracts for 20 tanks, then I need to conduct five separate competitive procedures. I have studied this issue, communicated with the Central Bank, but there is a position of authorized banks. It, unfortunately, occurs because of the risks of zeroing out a separate account under the state contract, which has not yet been executed. Such facts have already been in other industries.
- The profitability of contracts on the line of the Ministry of Defense is really only 3-5%?
- True. This is an eternal problem, which is still not solved. At one time, I proposed to introduce mirror advances and settlements with counterparties after payment by the customer, but the question does not move from the spot. It was possible to implement this only within UVZ by administrative methods.
- How do sanctions affect the UVZ?
- So far, we have not experienced any real problems. Sanctions keep us in a certain tone - I believe that this stimulates the work of the design idea and promotes the development of its own production within the import substitution program.
- Has not any project been closed?
- No, it was not like that.
- And the deputies did not come to you with the words "everything is lost, chief"?
- There is no such, I speak honestly. There is a story: one transport company said that it will not buy products from us, because it does not want to be subject to sanctions. And then they talked and she came to her senses. And we are working.
- You work at UVZ a little more than a year. Already decided on the strategy?
- In early April, the board of directors of the state corporation Rostek took place, where we reported on the draft strategy of the UVZ until 2025. The first version of the strategy was approved at the end of 2016, but after the decision to include the UVZ in Rostech, a road map was developed, which was successfully completed at the end of 2017, including by transferring the entire block of shares to the property of Rostek . In this roadmap, one of the points was the requirement to develop and then approve our direction of development in relation to the strategy, which was approved in 2015 by Rostekhom in order to integrate and be in a single system of coordinates. All this was reported and considered on the board of the state corporation and covers the period until 2025.
The main parameters that we have laid out are revenue growth of 10% annually with an output of about 255 billion rubles for 2025. Obviously, we have two key areas - the implementation of the state defense order and the production of civilian products. The parameters of the output of civil products are linked with the parameters of diversification, indicated by the president in late 2016. For the time being, we aim to achieve the share of civilian products in the total revenue of 42%.
- By 2025?
- Of course, this is the strategy. As we reported to the president during his visit to the UVZ, only by the plant itself in 2017, the share of civilian products in our revenues was 40%. But we understand that life is diverse, and in the near future a certain decline is possible, the demand for our railway products may drop. Therefore, we take all this into account in strategy and tactics, and we work out the civilian component in different directions.
On the military, everything is extremely simple and understandable: the weapons program was approved until 2027. We understand what orders are coming from the Ministry of Defense for at least five years. We have worked out and preached the ideology of long contracts of a full life cycle: modernization and production, and, very important, after-sales service, that is, the creation of a service system that will be based on those repair plants that were transferred to us from the Ministry of Defense , as well as on the creation of new competence centers.
The board of "Rosteha" was actively interested in the civil segment. Why? Because within the framework of diversification it is assumed that the ratio of civil and military products should be 50% by 50% by 2030. Moreover, this is in line with the strategic task that Vladimir Putin set before the enterprises of the OPK. Diversification is the creation of a sustainable model. To do this, we need to understand the strategy for the development of the civil market, the segment on which we will work, and how we will fill it. Somewhere we are the only performers, somewhere there is a competitive environment, which is also good, somewhere we have to open our new markets or new directions that will allow us to diversify business and production.
- Are there any benchmarks for the ratio of revenues in foreign markets and domestically?
- In terms of military products, everything is clearly defined: parity is stipulated. However, "parity" is also not very correct to say. It is necessary to specify, parity in what: in monetary or in quantitative expression? This is important in terms of exchange rate differences. While we proceed from monetary expression. And it is clear that our traditional markets, in this case, the Military Technical Cooperation, require some modification. We should not lose to opponents or those who want to enter our traditional markets. For example, Western partners. This is a problem that must be solved: for example, in the former Warsaw Pact countries, we are replaced by what is bad, we need to take this niche. Just recently I was in an African country and learned that the Serbs are very successful and well-run there. I was happy for the Serb brothers, but I was disappointed: why not us? I gave instructions, and now we will return this direction.
Or here is the philosophy that Narendra Modi preaches today - Make in India. Somehow thinking about this, I suddenly realized that the program of import substitution and import-dependence is somewhere akin to the "Make in India" program, paradoxical as it may seem. And today we can also use the mechanism of import substitution and import-dependence in the implementation of our internal tasks. And once the external contour offers such a position, we absolutely must actively work it out and present to colleagues and strategic partners proposals that they can not refuse, create a competitive environment and do not invite the North Atlantic Alliance to these markets, conditionally speaking.
- Are we talking about binding agreements?
- What do we have for the Defense Ministry today? We work together to complete the life cycle. What we, in a good way, should preach on the MTC line? Yes the same. We must prescribe in the contracts for the future the remaining life cycle. Then there is no situation of carrying out tender activities and inviting other countries, because all this will be formalized and contracted. So we create an absolutely clear perspective for the next years, dozens of years.
- But the life cycle contract, as a rule, is quite expensive for the buyer. What can he get in return?
- Contractual obligations, apparently, should be provided with certain preconditions that will hedge the risks that a new supplier from another country will appear in this contract. Price parameters will be discussed. We also have a clear understanding of how the relationship with the customer is developing from year to year. It's just necessary to legally properly formalize and implement technically.
It is clear that it is impossible to predict that by 2020 we will ensure the supply, for example, of spare parts at such and such a price. Therefore, a very thorough long-term study should be conducted, and this is one of the ways to preserve markets. And then, we are still looking for new markets. Our products have shown themselves today in hot spots, the whole world saw it, and it is clear that they have certain thoughts that I hope should be realized in specific applications that will come to FSMTC, and we will implement them.
The ideology of the full life cycle is not only an ideology in the military technical cooperation, state defense order and special products. We advocate the same approach with traditional strategic partners in civilian life. We have a very constructive relationship with Russian Railways, and we are working out a mechanism for long-term contacts, we are developing a price formula. And not only with Russian Railways, but also with our main potential buyers.
"Call them?"
- I will not sign them, because after all we are "slightly sanctioned" and people do not always like it when their names get into the media. This is a matter of supplying spare parts, a clear understanding of repair documentation, a profound philosophy of working out what I believe has so far required refinement and alignment. This includes, inter alia, the possibility of creating joint service centers. Maybe we will come to this. But the main thing is that everyone has a desire to communicate and find common solutions. We talk with colleagues, including the possibility of joint access to foreign markets. Russian Railways may be the flagship, which comes to other countries, and we already together with them supply road-building equipment, wagons of different specifications, other services.
- Did your work in Syria open something new?
- Yes. We managed to organize the logistics of the supply of spare parts (tools, tools, accessories - "Kommersant") to ensure the combat readiness of troops. This is real work, it has produced results. Also, the designers have clarifications that will enhance the performance characteristics of our equipment.
- The creation of an armored holding company in the strategy is recorded?
- No, because this level is higher - Rosteha with the Ministry of Industry and Trade, the Ministry of Defense and the military-industrial complex. On paper, you can write whatever you want, but in reality it must correlate with the strategies of other enterprises. This issue goes far beyond corporate governance, it concerns security and the implementation of the state program of armaments.
- What is the share of the market for wagons, trams, civil engineering equipment the company expects to occupy?
- The ambitious task is set: to get about 45-50% of the market by 2030. This is a maximum task. The work will be carried out, and already it is conducted quite systematically.
The country employs about 9 thousand trams, their park is worn out by 80%. It requires either replacement or modernization, and a deep one. There are three main producers, among them Uraltransmash UVZ. As part of the diversification of production, we can produce about 150 trams a year. Our colleagues are the same. But even if we assume that every year we will update 300 units, then, excuse me, how many years will the program take at the nine-thousandth park? All is enough. And enough from the point of view of the life cycle, and we understand that development is possible
The world goes to the fact that trams are an environmentally friendly, good, demanded vehicle. And maybe their number will grow. Our trams can already be found in Nizhny Tagil, Kazan and Kolomna. They are quite expensive - several times more expensive than an innovative car. Plus today there is a very correct position of the state in the person of the Ministry of Industry and Trade - it is subsidizing electric transport. We will definitely participate in it. Speaking about the market share, I will say that we want to take 50% too. How? It can be either an association with someone who has already been named, or the search for another strategic partner. For example, the same Czechs, who in Soviet times almost completely completed our market with trams. Therefore, options for a certain interaction are possible. Also within the framework of the Customs Union, a segment of production in Belarus appeared on the market. This must be taken into account. All this is our ambitious intention, which, I think, we will put into reality.
- And on road construction equipment?
- We are actively restoring the working capacity of the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant. I will not go into details, but there is a niche, not very big, unfortunately, but we will expand it. Here we are looking for strategic partners and strategic investors and we want to offer all within the same import substitution program, if there is a Russian analogue, not to buy Caterpillar or Korean and Chinese products. Of course, colleagues can tell us that the benchmark is a price-quality, but something needs to be started, and, in general, we have a good one, I would even say a good story and a tradition of production.
By the way, one of our customers is JSC Russian Railways and its subsidiary structure, with which we have already begun work. Also we released and showed on "Innoprom" an armored bulldozer. In hot spots, it can restore the national economy, and these hot spots are well known, we are actively working on them. The government helps, the Ministry of Industry and Trade does very well, I will not forget, of course, Rostekh. Now we have set the task to restore the production of wheeled and crawler excavators at UVZ. There were good designs. But then we put them on the shelf.
- And forgotten?
- Somehow it was not so. Now they have removed the shelves, the dust has been shaken off, updated, modernized. They are already being tested, and I hope that the UVZ will soon launch these excavators. Good. Price-quality must necessarily fit into the segment that exists from the point of view of the competitive environment.
In 2017, on the Day of the tankman, we signed a memorandum with the governor of the Sverdlovsk region that we are ready to restore production and ensure the supply of communal equipment. Here we also had operating time and production. We will restore and launch it: UVZ has a very good branch in Volchansk, about 1,000 people work there. Now it produces specialized platforms, mineral carriers, pellets. It is a city-forming enterprise of the city with a population of 10 thousand people. There are problems. But everyone's eyes are burning, a very good team, I really liked it, and we will develop it, load the plant with this kind of equipment.
Our Nizhny Novgorod Burevestnik has signed a licensing agreement with one of the American companies (Bulk Handling Systems, for the production of waste sorting plants - Kommersant) within the framework of SPIEF-2017, which, no matter what, is ready to continue cooperation. Now we are negotiating with a number of regions. We hope that in 2018 we will conclude several contracts to start production. Again, from the point of view of diversification, it is very good: if "Uraltransmash" is an artillery complex and is engaged in diversification in the form of production of trams, then "Burevestnik", also artillery, develops and prepares the program in the interests of municipalities.
- Speech about the transfer to you of the Ust-Katavsky car-building plant, which produces trams and is part of the structure of Roskosmos, does not go?
- We spoke with Roskosmos and discussed the creation of a single holding in other government offices. But with Ust-Katav from the point of view of the state approach the problem is that it is a city-forming enterprise. If you take a share, the question of social tension arises - or you have to offer some alternative. Therefore, if we do something together, we must give good concrete proposals. Now there are negotiations, elaborations, but at the initial stage.
- Can you specify the demand for wagons, trams, road construction and communal equipment you are targeting when you form an idea of the target market share?
- On the railway theme, we clearly understand that there are certain peaks of demand. The ones that were in 2016-2017 and partly pass to 2018 and, maybe, 2019, first of all, are connected with a large volume of spent recycling. The following years do not show the retirement of such a number of rolling stock. Therefore, the task for today is to smoothly form a portfolio of orders, so that it does not happen, as in previous years: at first it is dense, then empty. Do you remember how we let out 30 thousand cars each, and then dropped to three or five? It is unacceptable. Therefore, our philosophy is to maintain a slow but steady growth. If in 2017 we produced about 15 thousand cars, then we planned more than 17 thousand. In 2019, we will probably keep the same level.
But there is another component: we are talking about traditional gondola cars, but we should not forget about the expansion of the line. Therefore, today there is a relatively large amount of R & D, in which we work with new customers for new models, whether they are pellets, grain trucks or platforms, including in the interests of the Ministry of Defense. Ruler should be wide - this is the time. Two - we should not only talk directly about the release of cars, but also about providing them with spare parts. To build logistics so that our cars are in great demand in relation to others. Some competitors do it well, some do not.
- At the same time, you can influence your competitors through licensing agreements, which many have already had problems in 2017 ...
- We are very carefully starting to monitor relations with factories that had a license of the UVZ. When issuing a license, we are actually personally responsible for the quality and safety of traffic. Therefore, we must be absolutely sure that this license produces quality products. Previously, we did not follow the proper way, as a result, a large number of counterfeit products arose, which ultimately affected the quality and image of UVZ and its products. This, of course, is unacceptable.
Through the mechanism of licensing, we must form, including downloading your company - this is one point. The second point - we are very uncomfortable when there are, conditionally speaking, clones. With this we are also not ready to put up. We have re-signed four license agreements with traditional partners that have accepted the conditions regarding the exclusion of "clones" and the creation of normal civilized relations. In this case, there should be a unified approach. We do not have exclusive conditions: from you, I, for example, take a royalty of 3%, and with you - 100 rubles. unknown when.
All this is formalized in the form of a basic license agreement, according to which we work. Not with everyone we find a common language. Just recently, before reaching the final court decisions, we severed the license agreement with "Altayvagon" by mutual consent and we consider this absolutely correct. There is a lot of criticism on the car produced by "Altayvagon", which is operated in the Far East. We are extremely interested in having all our colleagues well, but also that if any problems arise, they are not projected onto us.
- You aspire to occupy half of the Russian production of cars, and what do you see the market share of components? Will it grow in the light of changes in your relationship with licensees?
- To make it clear, on the cart 18-100 we have not changed anything. Only in some way ordered. But as for the innovative trolley, then we are now very closely following the producers and have already signed agreements with a number of enterprises that recognize our licensing agreements.
But the spare parts market is not that big. We would like to see that counterfeit products do not fall on him, on a normal cart. After the dismantling of the cars, spare parts remained, which are now owned by the owners in warehouses and which they can use in normal production activities. Here I do not see any problems. And as for innovative things, we will simply very clearly and carefully look at the production capabilities of these enterprises, so that ideally there would be no marriage.
- Is it true that under new contracts a license is issued only for a year?
"Not really." We issue licenses for up to three years. Literally today this issue was discussed: all the contracts are mostly three-year old.
- Is there any mechanism for any long-term guarantees for licensees who will have to rebuild their production for the production of this cart?
- This is a good question, but the answer is very simple: we issue a license for ready-made production, for finished casting, for finished machining, for ready-made other technological redistributions. That is, the plant has already incurred certain investment costs and now comes and says: "Give us a license." He did not come to us and did not say: "Give us a license, and then we will incur investment costs." Of course, there are several vectors of development. First - work qualitatively, well, work with UVZ. The second is to hedge the risks and develop your products, conduct certification and enter the market with your product. And the third - hedge the risks in other areas of work that you can perform on this technological equipment.
- As for the trolley 18-100, the story of the introduction of a single repair documentation for it received a wide response. In the industry, they fear that the UVZ will solely control the production of components to the wagons. Will the market hold alternative manufacturers of casting and components?
- It's necessary to speak about repair design documentation like this. First, we are holders of the design documentation for the cart 18-100. We, of course, must be in certain standards, norms, they are defined. We do not in any way question the licensing agreements concluded by our colleagues, our enterprises operating in this market. Therefore, I do not see deep fears here. Another thing is that this documentation involves protecting the interests of the developer and should exclude the possibility of the appearance of "clones" and counterfeit. For example, now we with the Ministry of Transport are working out possible mechanisms for chipping. Developed even the possibility of equipping the GLONASS, it has not only positioning functions, but also a lot of other control functions, fixing temperature changes that can affect the trolley.
- GLONASS in every detail?
- No. There was such an idea, but there must be a reason, otherwise it can go anywhere. We are thinking about some new directions, new things, and before we do something, we will study the situation, do a survey, who needs GLONASS, what effect it gives, how much it costs and how to use it.
- How do you assess the noisy resonance of your licensing campaign?
- In my previous life, being in different positions, even in a terrible dream I could not imagine how the media can be used to solve specific problems. I have always treated and treated you with great respect, and this is confirmed by a thoughtful, correct position, especially in the federal media. If you take the local, the press leaves much to be desired. But I do not exclude that today certain groups of people, creating a certain negative trail, are solving their tasks.
We have such, remember, the film "Ivan Vasilievich changes profession", there was a wonderful dentist named Shpak, remember? "Suede jacket - three" and "all that is acquired by excessive work." So, with a number of companies, we simply break off relations and we will break, because we consider them unfair, we believe that these are not competitors, but parasites. And we know that someone is investing certain budgets in order to create an unstable balance, including on the UVZ, on the subject matter that we are now talking about. We know this and will act strictly within the law, strictly within the interests of UVZ Corporation, strictly in the interests of our consumers.
- But the range of enterprises that produce cars is narrowing, only UVZ and OVK remain on the market, and the concern of buyers is clear: it is more profitable for them that there are not two suppliers, but, for example, five or six.
- Correctly. We also want the same from our staffers. This is normal. In general, no one interferes or prohibits other factories, other design bureaus, to develop something of their own. At the same time, competition exists. Here, please, UVZ and HVAC. They are our competitors, and they encourage us to work better, just like we do them.
- Are you really going to open joint service centers with HVAC?
- We have our own trolley, we have our own. What will the creation of such centers give us? How will this be legally formalized? So the question at present is not worth it.
- And on the production of parts?
- If there is a task to optimize and unify something, then we must use positive experience. Only this positive experience should not go to the detriment, so that it does not become a hostage to competition.
- Do you support the strategy of transport engineering until 2030 regarding the introduction of fines for the operation of old cars?
- Here everything is very simple: every sandpiper praises its marsh. Of course, I need the company to download. If I am responsible for something else, I may have something else interesting.
- When does UVZ plan to bring cars to the market with a load of 27 tons per axle? At what stage is their development?
- An appropriate order was issued, a design team was created to develop the trolley, we are moving, including within the competitive environment. It's another matter what the prospect is, whether there will be many orders and how this will further shape the transportation market. We want to complete the work this year, next year we plan to withdraw.
- Do buyers have an interest?
- There is. There are also applications. Even the amount I know (laughs).
- What are the plans for the production of such cars for 2019?
"I'm not ready to talk about this right now." It will be incorrect: you need to get confirmation, certification and everything related to it. But the work is on. Moreover, in 2018, within the framework of state support, subsidies for 27 tons per axle are already envisaged.
- Buyers complain that the cars are very expensive. To what extent is the price formed, conditionally speaking, at the expense of metal or other third-party products and will the price increase continue?
- When I talked about long-term contracts, these are not empty words: we understand that we will work by the formula, and we work with several key partners and customers. To then form, if possible, a kind of universal price formula.
- You mean the price of the final product, the car?
- Of course.
- In it as a variable can be laid the price of metal in foreign markets and something else?
- That's right, of course. We come out on this plane. Moreover, I instructed my colleagues to work out this option: if you want to hedge with the rise in metal prices on the London Stock Exchange, let's consider that you will supply this metal to us. And then we will already form the prices based on this. We are very attentive to our costs, now we are considering a program to reduce overhead costs. But this should not lead to an increase in profitability, and the product itself must be profitable, and allow us to invest part of the money in new projects.
In the speeches of the head of Rostech, in its time, it was stated that a greater number of problems that arose, in particular, with the financial component, was brought about by the production of civilian products. I will not refute it in any way, but I understand that if we work below the cost, we will not go far. Therefore, the task is to minimize internal costs, including partially modernizing our production based on the outline of output for the next years, in order to understand what we will either fulfill the interest or return the main debt if it is a credit resource.
Today, while the main task is connected with the modernization of the T-72B3 tanks, but this can not continue indefinitely. At the same time, we understand that it is necessary to expand the line of non-large-scale contracts and in the civilian segment - about 150-300 pieces. To do this, we launched the 135th shop, before it was a military one, today is aimed at the production of civilian products. This is a vivid example of the conversion, which we reported to the president. We have prepared this production now at 1.2 thousand, and in general the annual program is designed for 2 thousand specialized wagons. There we lay down normal technologies, normal equipment, thereby reducing the cost of our products.
- And what else will be in this formula laid? What are the indicators?
- We want to maximally lay all the purchased products. And many agree with this. Neighbors buy pellets from us, they can also talk about introducing a price formula or taking into account the supply of components in the price. It's just not suitable for everyone, it's more about such large metallurgical companies, you can talk to them. And with others - what can you do if the price increases. Foreign states have introduced duties on the import of metal, it means that this will somehow affect our market and civil products. We have very metal-intensive products. Then, we need to reduce the amount of rejects in the production of components. We need to work out new designs that are more technological, more reliable. There was an elastic element for innovative trolleys with which problems arose, now control is improved, created stands that provide its control. All this is an ongoing process.
- Are you going to buy any wagon-building company?
- To buy? It's worth the money.
- You can also buy for a thank you.
"For thanks, please." To buy, you need to sell something or earn something, that was from what means. If someone wants to come to us for free - we'll look. After taking away for free, you can be in the position of the mean, who pays twice. We bought Yurga Machine-Building Plant for free, invested not one billion rubles, but the problem is not solved. This is not a reproach, but an example. In the Soviet period, he produced an artillery component, and this was one of the motivations, but we did not pay anything, but got problems. Of course, the plant can certainly be developed. Deliveries to the countries of Asia and North Africa are already being considered.
- What's the problem?
- The problem is simple: it produces mining equipment, which is in demand today in the market, it would seem, but for some reason they are buying the European, and above all Polish. When I realized this and found out, to put it mildly, I was very surprised. Therefore, a number of appeals have been made to those who regulate these processes, paid attention. At the same time, all companies do not fall under the 223-FZ (on public procurement .- "Kommersant"), they both want and buy. Therefore, when I say that we are ready to consider offers for free, it is rather cheese in a mousetrap. Of course, we will study everything.
- For money - no?
"We need resources to develop our existing production, solve our problems, including in the implementation of the strategy.
- Is the history of UVZ-Logistic closed?
- We have sold the asset, the final settlement will be made within several years. Given the existing economic realities, this is by no means the worst option.
- Did this structure justify itself?
- For the transition period, yes rather than no. It was a salvation. As for the project economics, there were difficulties there, but it's not right for me to speak about it now.
- How do you assess the financial standing of the UVZ?
- Consolidated loss for 2016 was 4.2 billion rubles, and in 2017 brought a profit of about 1.3 billion rubles. Any more a minus. In general, we will have a profit, although it was given very hard. Previous years gave good profitability on contracts in the field of military-technical cooperation, and profitability on state defense order and civilian production leaves much to be desired. We reduced costs, did a lot of work to restructure the loan portfolio.
- Have you refinanced?
- Yes, in this issue, Rostekh helped promptly.
- In Novikombank?
- No, although this bank also helped us. I can say that by 2017, due to close cooperation with federal bodies and the government, first of all I am grateful to the Ministry of Finance, an order was issued that allowed the loan agreements to be ceded with preservation of the state guarantee. Thanks for this, and thank you very much. This maneuver allowed us to conduct active negotiations with a number of banks, which, of course, do not have such a percentage of the rate that we would like to have. Personally, I think 10.5% per annum - it's expensive under state guarantees.
Some banks say that we have a CBA rate and own margin. And the margin for all is different: for someone - 2%, for someone - 1%. The key rate is now 7.25%, we set the task to go below 9%, now we have a weighted average interest rate of 9.2%. The profit that we received, including related to the savings on the interest rate for 2017, about 2.5 billion rubles., Which is not bad. And in general, the chicken grains on the grain.
- How does the system of authorized banks work in the new conditions?
- For us this system is basically reduced to three banks with which we work. If now the construction changes in connection with the reference bank, let's see how it will look. There are positive moments: they are reduced to the ordering of funds within a separate state contract. In addition, it deprives certain hotheads of the opportunity to use these funds for other purposes.
However, the law does not prohibit payment from one separate account in the interests of another in the framework of the state defense order. But these operations, as a rule, are not carried out by banks, and for us it is a big enough problem. Look: if I have one contract, roughly speaking, for 100 tanks, then it's good, but if I have five contracts for 20 tanks, then I need to conduct five separate competitive procedures. I have studied this issue, communicated with the Central Bank, but there is a position of authorized banks. It, unfortunately, occurs because of the risks of zeroing out a separate account under the state contract, which has not yet been executed. Such facts have already been in other industries.
- The profitability of contracts on the line of the Ministry of Defense is really only 3-5%?
- True. This is an eternal problem, which is still not solved. At one time, I proposed to introduce mirror advances and settlements with counterparties after payment by the customer, but the question does not move from the spot. It was possible to implement this only within UVZ by administrative methods.
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