Anatoly Serdyukov heads the aviation cluster of the state corporation Rostek, which includes enterprises with tens of thousands of employees and turnover of over 0.5 trillion rubles, since its inception. After the announced accession to the cluster of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) under the leadership of Serdyukov will be virtually the entire Russian aviation industry.

In an interview with RBC, he explained how the accession to the UAC cluster will be carried out, how the Russian-Chinese heavy helicopter project is progressing and what novelties Rostek has prepared for the 2018 Army Forum.

"We are waiting for the counter initiatives of Roskosmos

- The head of Rostekh, Sergei Chemezov, announced plans to create a single air corporation within the state corporation, following the example of Airbus, which will include the UAC. Could you explain how this will happen?

- How this will happen, the state will decide. The usual procedure in such cases (as was, for example, when Rostekh entered UVZ) is the transfer of shares in the form of a property contribution from the Russian Federation. At the same time, merging the UAC with other holdings or connecting legally, no one is going to change its legal form. The design turns out to be too cumbersome. From the point of view of the share capital, it is now very difficult to realize this.

The UAC in this case will be included in Rostek, but it will not merge with the Helicopters of Russia or any other holdings. It will be a separate holding company, like everyone else: JDC, KRET or Russian Helicopters.

Perhaps in the future we will come to this, but first we will have to work very seriously in both holdings, primarily in the UAC. Optimize them, make a reconfiguration.

- What tasks will be the first priority for the new concern?

- The first idea is, of course, to bring together the manufacturers of aircraft and components. It is necessary to look and understand the loading of the enterprises of the UAC and our enterprises: where there is duplication, which links can be removed, where it is necessary to supplement each other, which areas should be moved or merged, how to work with suppliers in a single key.

The next step is to integrate the strategy of the aviation cluster Rostekha into the UAC strategy. It is necessary to decide how we will shape the market, both internal and external. But for a start there must be a decision of the government to transfer the UAC to the outline of Rostekh - I remind you that it is not yet available.

What is the aviation cluster "Rosteha"

It was created in 2015. The largest companies of the cluster are the holding company Helicopters of Russia (one of the leaders in the world helicopter market with a share of more than 10%), Tekhnodinamika, the United Engine Building Corporation (UDK, the manufacturer of all Russian aircraft engines) and the Radioelectronic Technologies Corporation (avionics and electronics) . The enterprises of the cluster employ 192,000 people. Its total revenue for 2016 is 534.7 billion rubles. It is planned to increase the revenue of the cluster by an average of 14% per year in ruble terms to 2025.

In the near future, the structure of the cluster will include the United Aircraft Corporation, in which 30 aircraft manufacturers. In total, more than 90,000 people work at the enterprises belonging to the UAC. According to SPARK, the revenue of PJSC UAC for 2016 was 50.8 billion rubles.

According to the published strategy of the UAC until 2035, the share of the corporation in the world civil aviation market should grow by 2025 from a level of less than 1 to 4.5%. The share of the "affordable market" of military aviation from the current 20% by 2035 should grow to 45%.

- When the UAC goes under the management of Rosteha, will you carry out personnel reshuffle?

- I have been heading the aviation cluster of the state corporation since 2015 and have not fired anyone from the management. My task - on the contrary, this management makes me work. This is necessary first of all to Rostekh.

- Is it true that Rostech has some kind of competition with Roskosmos enterprises?

- Yes it is. The engines for the first and second stages of the Soyuz rocket are made by the UDK, and for the third - by KBCA. The question is, neither they nor we are fully loaded. Of course, I would like to solve this problem.

- Do you plan to discuss this issue with the leadership of Roskosmos?

- We have thoughts on this, ready for discussion. We are waiting for the counter-initiatives of Roskosmos.

"The Chinese are more interested in working with us than with the Ukrainians"

- There was information that the Ministry of Defense had to reduce the number of helicopters purchased under the new state armament program because of the lack of engines. It's true?

- We have no difficulties with the engines. For example, we are releasing an engine for VK-2500 helicopters in the planned volume, there are no problems.

- And how does the work with the PD-12V engine for the Mi-26 work?

- Experimental design work continues according to plan. In 2017, the EDC completed the stage of preliminary design. The design of the power plant and the main parameters have already been determined, and integration with the helicopter has been carried out. The production and testing of the first prototype is planned for 2020. Assignment of the O1 (prototype, ready for serial production - RBC) - for 2025.

This part of the big work, within which Rostek is working out a whole line of engines to close the demand of our aviation industry for power plants. I will be ready to talk about the results of this work in the autumn, when we will understand that we really can do it - for money and for time, according to terms.

- "Rostegh" announced a contract with China to create a new heavy-duty helicopter AHL (Advanced Heavy Lift) on the Mi-26 base in June-July this year. The contract is already signed?

"Not yet, negotiations continue." We are waiting for you in the near future.

- And how does the Chinese side explain why the signing is delayed?

- Does not explain. The contract is complex, the dialogue is not over yet.

- Will the scandals and conflicts around the Ukrainian engine manufacturer "Motor Sich" prevent Russia's participation in the AHL project?

- I think that the problems of "Motor Sich" to us in no way interfere. Because the engine is only part of the helicopter. For the basic design we are responsible. In general, in large helicopters, the most difficult is not even the motor, but a reducer and a general construction.

- If Ukraine leaves the AHL project, are we ready to offer our engine right now?

- If there is a volume of [order] and if there is a clear price, then yes, we are ready.

"For what price would you be willing to make such an engine for the Chinese?"

- The most important thing is, of course, the volume. If we understand the volume, our presence, capitalization. This is a rather complicated story. But I have a feeling that the Chinese will be more interested in working with us than with the Ukrainians.

- Why?

- Because in Ukraine the political situation is not stable, as in Russia. In addition, with us, the Chinese have been working for a long time and successfully, including on long projects.

- Russia has already offered to make engines for this project, but the Chinese refused, preferring the Ukrainian ones.

"Time will tell, of course." But we are ready. If there are no problems with the aircraft engine, why do we have problems with the helicopter engine? The main developer in this project is the Chinese side, and they have to decide which engine will stand on the helicopter. But I know for sure that if Rostech made an engine for the AHL, it would have been much more modern and more economical than the one currently available from Motor Sich.

- What can be revealed now about a promising helicopter engine, the development of which was announced in the UDK?

- Of course, there is involved our previous experience, including the fifth-generation fighter. Modern technologies will be used, including three-dimensional printing. It should be taken into account that the power plant for a new generation helicopter will have fundamental differences in order to provide a completely different power, speed, reliability, thermal visibility. Therefore, new solutions are being sought, which can be applied.

"The revenue of the cluster should exceed 1.5 trillion rubles."

- Have the indicators planned in the Development Strategy of the Rostekha aviation cluster until 2025 been fulfilled?

"The strategy of the cluster is part of the overall strategy of Rostech, which is very ambitious - in all senses of the word. For example, there is a task by 2025 to increase the share of civil products to 50%. Other enterprises and clusters of "Rostecha" - those that have only been engaged in weapons for decades - are somewhat more complicated here than to us. But for us the task is not at all simple. Nevertheless, we solve it. For example, "Russian Helicopters" are increasing the output of light vehicles "Ansat" and Ka-226T - they are expected to have good demand in the country and abroad. KRET creates a network of charging stations for electric vehicles, is developing equipment for medicine. The JDC is developing new markets, for example, equipment for the oil and gas industry.

- What specific results can you speak about?

- The strategy of the aircracker provides for an increase in revenue of holdings by an average of 11.9% per year. By 2025, the revenue of the cluster should exceed 1.5 trillion rubles.

We maintain this pace. For example, "Helicopters of Russia" in 2017 markedly increased sales volumes - from 189 to 214 vehicles. The volumes of after-sales service of machinery have been increased, both in Russia and abroad. As a result, the holding's revenue increased by 19%. KRET increased revenue by 23%, Tekhnodinamika - by 21.5%.

The total revenue of the cluster in 2017 exceeded 611.4 billion rubles. This is almost 15% more than a year earlier. Total profit reached 67.1 billion. EBITDA amounted to 141.1 billion rubles., EBITDA margin - 23%. These are good indicators.

"Creating cooperation on-line"

- Another forum "Army-2018" is approaching. What aviavovinki will be presented at the forum from your cluster?

- First of all, two new versions of helicopters: the modernized Mi-26T2V and Mi-28N in a new technical form. The first will replace the familiar Mi-26 used by the Defense Ministry. It is equipped with a new complex of avionics, in fact an autopilot with the functions of reaching a predetermined point, approaching, returning to the main or alternate aerodrome. The machine uses a new complex of defense - he himself detects threats and protects the air defense side of the enemy.

The Mi-28N, which we will also show, received a power unit with increased power. He has a new design of the screw and stabilizer. The machine is armed with new guided anti-tank missiles "Chrysanthemum", modernized guided missile "Attack", and for the first time can be equipped with aerial bombs. In addition, it can interact with drones and manage them remotely.

A number of new developments will show "Technodynamics". It supports the chassis and a new generator for the IL-112V, the electric system for moving flaps, which is easier and more reliable than the hydraulic ones currently in use.

The UDK will show three modern aircraft engines: AI-222-25 for the training aircraft Yak-130 and other light aircraft, AL-31F for fighter jets and bombers, VK-2500P / PS for civil Mi-171A2 helicopter. The holding will also demonstrate the first domestic gas turbine engine with a capacity of 14 thousand hp. for ships of the Russian Navy.

KRET will traditionally present the latest developments in the field of on-board electronics for aviation.

- When will the tests of the Katran UAV be completed and how many sets will be put into the troops in the first batch?

- Now Katran is undergoing ground tests. They will end in the autumn of this year, after which the "Russian Helicopters" will begin flight tests - they are scheduled to be completed in 2019.

The cooperation of the cluster enterprises, including the KRET holding, is taking part in the work. The development of the aircraft is carried out by the enterprise "Helicopters of Russia" KumAPP. The customer is the concern of the East-Kazakhstan region Almaz-Antey. The result will be the transfer of "Almaz-Anteyu" two unmanned helicopters. The Ministry of Defense has not yet received orders. But the car is certainly interesting. Therefore, I think there will be demand.

We look at several options for equipping the UAV. In particular, it can be equipped with reconnaissance equipment, it is envisaged the installation of various types and types of weapons.

- Sergei Shoigu creates a military technopolis ERA near Anapa. Did Rostekh receive an invitation to open its representative offices there?

- So far, there have been no such proposals. If they do, we will consider.

- Are you interested in this participation?

- It is difficult for me at this stage to comment on something. Rostek includes more than 700 enterprises. This is about 450 thousand specialists. Many enterprises and specialists are linked by cooperation, despite the distances. To solve the problem, they do not need to be gathered together in the same city in the same walls. We live in an era of digital technology, there are many other possibilities. We create cooperation between developers online. It is very difficult, and there is no need to physically unite different people on the same platform. Often, you just need to create a platform for data exchange and correct communication.

But, of course, if this center gives any completely different technical possibilities, it can be interesting.

"At that time I was on the other side"

- Did you work with the Defense Ministry in Rostekha?

- The minister's position is both a systematic approach and experience in managing a large number of people. Moreover, the Defense Ministry had a difficult situation, requiring serious and not always popular reforms, and we are now in a state of reform in Rostekh. The main thing is to understand what this will lead to on the horizon of five to ten or twenty years, and go to it. The company is developing, new conditions, conditions, requirements, wishes of the customer arise-everything must be taken into account.

At that time I was on the other side - as a customer. And, of course, I understand the strict requirements of the Ministry of Defense. Now I'm on the producer's side and I understand that there are also nuances that need to be considered. Because you can want a lot, but there are technological limitations, there are tasks, sometimes on the brink of fantasy, the solution of which is required for many years.

- What innovations in the army, carried out during your leadership, you were most proud of, for example, during actions in the Crimea or in Syria?

- A new technology has appeared, which can be moved over great distances, and at such distances it allows effective control of the troops. Another 10-15 years ago this and in a good dream could not be imagined.

- And what would you, on the contrary, have corrected?

- Judging by the chosen strategy, a very large number of people and equipment passed through Syria. There are pluses and minuses. On the one hand, there have never been such large-scale tests in real conditions. On the other hand, in such conditions it is quite difficult to ensure coherence between units.

- Which aviation equipment has undergone the most changes since the beginning of the operation in Syria?

- Any combat operation reveals the shortcomings of technology steeper than the most extreme tests. Therefore, the experience is invaluable. A number of technical requirements under contracts with the Defense Ministry have changed markedly. The new equipment is delivered already with these changes. Taking into account the gained experience, we are making changes to the products that are being developed. Speaking in general, we are expanding the parameters of helicopters.

- Can you give concrete examples?

Substantially modified Mi-28, for example. In the part of on-board electronics, communication equipment, night vision devices, thermal imaging equipment. There were questions with the behavior of the engine in conditions of firing and hot air. All this is taken into account in our work.

- In mid-July, Andrei Malakhov in the magazine "StarHit" said that recently you are married to Eugene Vasilyeva. Is it so?

- I would not want to comment. Because it's my personal life. Let it remain on the conscience of those who come up with all this.

What is known Anatoly Serdyukov

He was born on January 8, 1962 in the village of Kholmsky, Krasnodar Territory. In 1984 he graduated from the Leningrad Institute of Soviet Trade, specializing in economics. Has a doctorate in economics. In 1984-1985 he served in the Soviet Army, graduated from officer courses and was fired by a reserve officer. In 2001 he graduated from St. Petersburg State University with a degree in Law.

In 1985-1991 he worked in commerce, then took up business. In the early 2000's - in the tax authorities. In March 2004, he was appointed Deputy Minister for Taxes and Levies. In 2004-2007 he was the head of the Federal Tax Service.

On February 15, 2007, Vladimir Putin appointed Serdyukov Minister of Defense. In November of the same year, Serdyukov took up the post of chairman of the supervisory board of the state corporation Rostekhnologii, established in the same month. In May 2007, Serdyukov announced a large-scale rearmament program for the army until 2015, worth 5 trillion rubles. In 2010, the scale of the program rose to 20 trillion rubles. until 2020. In 2008, Serdyukov initiated a military reform that included changes in military command and control from the "military district-army-division-regiment" system to the three-part "district-operational command-brigade". The forces of the Air Force, Air Defense and Navy were also transferred to the districts, and four instead of six. In addition, it was announced the increase in the monetary allowance of soldiers and officers, as well as the involvement of civilian structures for the organization of food, cleaning and maintenance of the military.

In November 2012, he was dismissed by the president amid a scandal involving embezzlement in the Oboronservice company subordinated to the Defense Ministry, whose activities were supervised by the head of the property relations department of the ministry Evgeny Vasiliev. Serdyukov was on the case as a witness. A year after his resignation against Serdyukov, the Investigative Committee instituted a criminal case on negligence, based on charges of allowing the construction at the expense of the Ministry of Defense of the entrance to the recreation center owned by the relatives of the ex-minister. However, in 2014 these charges were dropped, the criminal case was closed.

In 2015 he was appointed industrial director of the aviation cluster "Rosteha".