Roman Panov has been engaged in the consolidation of state geological exploration companies for four years. Now under the roof of the "Rosgeology" they gathered more than 60. The general director is sure that without consolidation, a fifth of them would already be ruined. The idea was right, a strong holding was created, which can now compete both in Russia and abroad, says Sberbank CIB analyst Valery Nesterov.
Panov and his team developed a development strategy for the company until 2020. Its share in the domestic market of geological exploration services will grow due to commercial orders, but demand is limited: hydrocarbon producers are provided with reserves and are in no hurry to put new fields into operation. Panov notes that in 5-7 years this may become a problem for the country's mining complex. But his company needs to evolve. "Rosgeology" sees the potential abroad and, for example, in the marine seismic survey feels more than equal with foreign competitors. "We learned how to manage costs and load our production capacities by almost 100%," explains Panov.
According to Panov, the company received the highest profitability last year in contracts on offshore operations in the transit zone. And he highly assesses the prospects of the Kamchatka shelf, which, in his opinion, is underestimated by Russian oil and gas companies because of outdated data. "Our focus on the horizon of 2018-2020. should be in the Far East, "- says the general director of" Rosgeology. "
- You headed Rosgeology in 2013. As a rule, contracts are concluded for five years. Yours this year will expire?
- With me as with the chairman of the board, the contract was signed in 2015, so until 2020 we continue to work quietly. I and my team, having come to the "Rosgeology", developed its strategy until 2020. It singled out the directions that were considered the most popular, determined the steps of implementation. I can say with some pride that everything planned was fulfilled both from the point of view of planning and in terms of organizing work. The "Rosgeologia" has enormous potential. Now we have just collected assets, are engaged in their restructuring, optimization of business processes, updating of fixed assets, we are providing a regulatory basis, we are making sure steps in foreign markets.
If the holding company were not created, I can confidently say that of the assets that fell into it, about 20% would no longer exist or was in a difficult financial situation. For example, Sevmorneftegeofizika is one of the flagships of marine exploration, the company that owns the discovery of many of the largest offshore fields in Russia. When we took it on balance, it was in a pre-bankruptcy state. Due to sanctions and internal problems, customers stopped paying with it, and the debt in the moment was 4 billion rubles.
- Now, in fact, having completed the consolidation and creating the holding company, will Rosgeologiya increase its share in the Russian market?
- The whole market of geological exploration services in Russia is estimated at about 275 billion rubles. without VAT. Our share is about 13%.
The share of geophysical services in the company's revenue is up to 30%. According to the rating of the European Association of Geoscientists and Engineers (EAGE) in 2017, we took 1st place in Russia (share - 22%), 2nd place - in "TNG groups" (16%), 3rd - from Schlumberger (15%).
Our share in the Russian market can grow due to the commercial order, the potential for growth is on average 2-2.5%. The market will not give any more, as the extraction and reproduction of oil and gas companies' reserves are at a comfortable level for them. At the same time, we see the possibility of entering foreign markets.
The portfolio of Rosgeologi's orders is balanced: the ratio of commercial and government orders is 60% to 40%. Commercial contracts are evenly distributed among the largest players: Rosneft, Gazprom, in part - Lukoil, Novatek. No dependence on one customer, which allows you to effectively load capacity. Among the clients in the solid minerals sector, the main customers are Norilsk Nickel, Polymetal, Kamchatka Zolotoy, etc. However, the share of government contracts dominates here, which is related to the structure of investments: at the early stage of geological exploration the state has always been an active player.
In 2018, this balance of state and commercial orders will continue. But we see opportunities for growth in individual segments. So, for example, following the results of 2017, the highest yield was given by high-margin projects (profitability - 30-35%) - these are contracts for work on the shelf, in the transit zone.
Far East and Siberia
- If we talk about individual regions, who are your main partners in the Far East and how active is China?
- Partners - Rosneft, Gazprom. China provides its own service market entirely at the expense of its own companies. At the same time, today it is the main competitor in the international arena, not so much for us as for Western companies. All works on the shelf of China, for example, are carried out only by Chinese contractors.
- How large are gas reserves in the Far East, in particular in Sakhalin?
- The shelf of Sakhalin is very well studied, in fact it is all licensed. The resources and gas reserves are significant, they are sufficient to cover not only the needs of the Far East, but also the export potential that is there. Prospects for the growth of resources on the shelf of Sakhalin are limited, but the shelf of Kamchatka and the Magadan shelf have serious prospects.
- But recently there was information that Gazprom was ready to give up part of the licenses on the western shelf of Kamchatka. The company did not find commercially interesting stocks there.
- We are talking about the prospects of a particular site. Confirmation of commercial interest may indicate that either the areas were unsuccessfully chosen, or the primary geological and prospecting data was not enough. But I'm afraid that the whole approach to studying the shelf today is wrong. The main study of the shelf was carried out until 1991. The state represented by Rosnedra drew attention to the shelf in the early 2000s. and in small volumes continued the study. In the late 2000's. subsoil users in the person of Gazprom and Rosneft began active licensing. At the same time, drawing on the data of 20-30 years ago. In my opinion, it is advisable to analyze the geological data and, perhaps, return to those areas that were considered unpromising, to carry out reconnaissance using modern hardware systems and software processing capabilities. There are prospects for the Kamchatka shelf - this is absolutely certain. Our focus is on the horizon of 2018-2020. should be in the Far East.
- Do not you think that the interest in this region may be lower than the rest, because even if stocks are found, will it be very difficult to monetize them?
- There are Chukotka and Magadan Oblast. These are two industrial regions, where there is no own hydrocarbon resource base. In addition, there is also export potential.
- There is still growing interest in the territory of Yakutia in terms of the possible containment of hydrocarbon reserves there. How much is it justified?
- Interest in Yakutia is huge and really justified. The volume of 2D seismic that the state makes there is the largest in comparison with other regions. Next come the Krasnoyarsk Territory and the Irkutsk Region. The territory of Yakutia is large, the infrastructure is actively developing, including through the commissioning of Gazprom fields.
- That is, Yakutia is the future of Bovanenkovo? Just as now the center of prey from Nadym is shifting to Bovanenkovo?
- You answer your own question. As soon as there is a pipe, there will be opportunities. Plus, near Novatek with plans to develop a resource base. This is not only gas, but also oil. There is already an export pipe East Siberia-Pacific Ocean.
- Recently you told me that there is a great chance on the Gydan Peninsula to make a major discovery. When will the final results be obtained?
- At Gydan, we completed the drilling of the parametric well Gydanskaya-130. 12 deposits of hydrocarbon raw materials concentrated in the depth interval from 740 to 3220 m were discovered on the territory of the peninsula in Soviet times. Parametric well Gydanskaya-130 opens prospects for deeper horizons of the Mesozoic sedimentary cover. To clarify the scale of the oil and gas potential of the Paleozoic base of the north of Western Siberia, the parametric well Gydanskaya-118 is projected.
- Is there a preliminary estimate?
- Currently, the research is not completed, it is planned to conclude a state contract for testing in the production column of the 130th well to assess the productivity of the Triassic, Jurassic and Lower Cretaceous sediments.
- Then who will you give this information to?
- Customer - Rosnedra. It is planned that the object will be closed in the I quarter. Until June 1, the report will already be at Rosnedra. Then the Ministry of Natural Resources and Rosnedra will decide what to do with these areas: to put it under licensing now or later.
- Obviously, it will be interesting first of all to Novatek. In December, at the presentation of the strategy, the company told that it is possible to create a cluster on LNG production capacity of 55 million tons per year in Yamal, and in the future to reach a volume of 75 million tons.
"The question is whether the sales market will be for Russian LNG and whether it will be competitive in terms of value in the world market. We can surely provide the resources, Gydan has a huge potential. In addition, it is no less interesting for the extraction of solid minerals. About 40-45% of financing of this sector falls on the Far East, 20% - in Yakutia.
Not only oil and gas
- How many discoveries did Rosgeology make in the sector of solid minerals?
- We find resources, the next stage is the confirmation of reserves. We do not reach the level of reserves, that is, one can not talk about discoveries.
According to the results of 2017, out of 87 sites in the solid minerals sector, which we closed, we see the potential for opening medium and large deposits at 24. Now the program "Reproduction and use of natural resources" includes 20 minerals. In the conditions of the reduction of funding, seven priority ones were identified. Plans for their reproduction are carried out. But, in our opinion, the program requires revision. For example, gold requires intensification of work. The demand for deposits is high, there are virtually no large objects, and those that exist are immediately withdrawn at tenders.
- Is there a demand for rare-earth metals?
- There is demand. There are also resources. For example, in 2017 we completed the work at the Chuktukon project in the Krasnoyarsk Territory. This is one of the world's largest rare earth deposits, comparable in scale to Tomtor (Yakutia).
The question now stands in the demand for rare earth metals by the domestic economy and on foreign markets. The commissioning of such large facilities will always be reflected in the consumer market. That is, we can change the prices on the market with our own hands, not in our favor. Therefore, it is important to correctly prioritize.
- "Rosgeology" plans to work in the Crimea?
- In the Crimea, there are regional enterprises, they cope with the volume of geological exploration work that is planned there.
Exploration Economics
- The most unexplored territory in Russia is the Arctic shelf. In general, what is the supply of oil and gas in the country?
- The degree of exploration of the Arctic shelf is extremely uneven and inadequate. Relatively studied geophysical studies are the Barents Sea and the southern part of the Kara Sea. In the Laptev Sea and the East Siberian Sea, the density of geophysical profiles does not correspond even to the regional stage, so the potential increase in resources and reserves is difficult to assess even now. In terms of gas, the country is provided for 100 years ahead. With regard to oil ... On the one hand, for the next 25 years, all companies have provided oil, on the other, there are already problems with the growth of reserves in traditional production areas.
- How many resources of hydrocarbons does Rosgeologiya annually increase?
- About 2 billion tons of equivalent fuel resources of low categories. The size and rate of growth of the resource base correspond to the rates of extraction. The volumes of the area seismic survey are significant, but they require verification by exploratory and exploratory drilling, which is not enough now, with access to reserves. The deficit of these works, according to our estimates, is 40%.
- Why is this happening? Companies do not want to engage in geological exploration?
- Companies are provided with reserves, they do not have an urgent need to intensively put into operation deposits. But the slowdown in the growth of reserves may become a problem for the whole mining complex of the country in the next 5-7 years. We are even now witnessing a shortage of licensed areas: there are no large facilities in principle, and small ones are either not in demand by the market, or are left at a very high price. This is good for the budget, but bad for companies, because their costs are growing.
There is another problem. Companies understand that in order to effectively manage production costs and maintain high profitability of business, you need to have a fairly limited portfolio of stocks on your balance sheet. On average, it should equal 10 years of production. If you have stocks for more than 10 years, it starts to put pressure on your current operating costs, because you took on the license obligations to finance geological exploration work. The company wants to get the already prepared deposit, put it in a piggy bank and do nothing. But this is unprofitable for the state, since objects that can be put into operation are withdrawn from circulation, so it is very important to find a balance here.
- What prevents Rosgeology from doing exploratory drilling to confirm reserves?
- Geological exploration consists of several stages. The first stage is regional, where the geological structure of the territory is explored and the promising areas for oil and gas are identified using seismic and gravimagnetic studies. As a result, parametric wells are being laid, which are drilled to obtain information on the deep structure of the subsoil, identify possible oil and gas accumulation zones and prepare them for exploratory geological exploration work. In the next stage, 3D seismic exploration is conducted and exploratory wells are drilled, the result is discovered and prepared traps and open hydrocarbon deposits. At the final - exploration stage - complex geophysical and other methods in the drilled wells, the structure of the field is studied and exploratory wells are being drilled. The state program for the reproduction of the mineral and raw materials base allows Rosgeology to complete the search phase with parametric drilling. "Rosgeology" is the only executor of works on parametric drilling - the holding occupies 100% of the market.
In terms of costs, the exploratory and exploratory stages of geological exploration are much more expensive than regional work, which includes parametric drilling. To conduct exploration and exploration, additional funds are required, which are not provided for in the state program. But this issue is facing the government, and in my opinion, it is obvious that the state will need to carry out these works. At present, drilling of prospecting and exploratory wells is necessary for the discovery of new oil and gas fields. This is the only way to gradually increase hydrocarbon resources.
- How much money is needed for this?
- According to preliminary estimates, the state will need an additional 12-14 billion rubles. per year for exploratory and exploratory drilling.
- And if instead of state funding involve partners?
- The model of public-private partnership (PPP) requires legislative and regulatory regulation. Now the procedure for conducting geological exploration work is clearly defined: you can either conduct them at the state's expense on the undistributed fund, or you can obtain a license and take it into operation in accordance with the obligations. But objects with an unprepared resource base are of less interest to the market.
PPP works according to the following scheme: the state confirms the higher liquidity of this site with its own investments, previously made works and the quality of information about the site. In this case, the state will be guaranteed to spend roughly 1 ruble, and a private investor, for example, 3 or 5 rubles.
- You negotiated with RFPI. This scheme of work was discussed?
- RFPI could be one of the options for attracting funding. The purpose of the fund is to invest investors' funds for the long term, then to exit, fixing a certain profitability. Our current projects are risky enough that it does not fit the RFPI. Therefore, we will discuss projects in a greater degree of readiness.
Year past and new plans
- With what financial indicators did Rosgeology finish last year? What are your plans for 2018?
- 2017 we estimate as quite successful. The company has worked effectively, all the planned indicators have been fully implemented. Holding achieved a record profitability on net profit of 4.5%, EBITDA margin of 15%. We will keep these figures in 2018. Revenues in 2017 amounted to about 35 billion rubles, and taking into account assets that have not yet been transferred to the balance sheet, 38 billion rubles. The plan for this year is 41 billion rubles. We try to keep the debt / EBITDA ratio at the level of 1.1-1.5. We plan to significantly increase investments - from 5.4 billion rubles. in 2017 to 8.1 billion in 2018. This is necessary for the renewal of fixed assets. Unfortunately, we can not say that the first-class assets were consolidated into the holding, as they are mainly enterprises with a fairly worn-out fund, which requires modernization.
- Or maybe not upgrade, but buy new ones? Did not consider buying Eurasia Drilling Company (EDC)?
- We consider different options. Do you think EDC does not have a worn out fund? The service life of the drilling rig in the deposits of solid minerals is seven years. So this is the time when it works for you, after that you should already work for the spare part. If we talk about seismic equipment, today in the bidding documents customers indicate the requirements for equipment - not older than three years. That is, every three years I have to throw out the old, put the new on balance.
Over the past three years, the quality of equipment "Rosgeology" has improved. So, before worn by individual funds reached up to 87%, and on average the holding was above 70%, today - below 50%.
- What is the target?
- It does not exceed 20-24%, which corresponds to the world practice. For example, Schlumberger has 24%. Returning to the topic of EDC - in fact, we did not study the company. The question is in the EDC contract base, the condition of fixed assets and the stability of the order. Potentially, any transaction for Rosgeologiya can be of interest if it fits into the holding's model. Regions of our strategic presence are the Far East, Eastern Siberia, so last year, for example, we carried out work on the acquisition of Yakutskgeofizika.
Two sides of import substitution
- Does "Rosgeology" strongly depend on foreign equipment?
- We use foreign equipment, but I do not see a critical dependence. We are pursuing a policy to restore our competences in the field of equipment manufacturing. If we can build a rocket and launch it into space, we will solve this problem. The domestic school of production of equipment for the oil and gas complex has always been strong. Demand for him was, including abroad. But at a certain stage, scientific and production ties collapsed. When the scientific organization was torn from production facilities, the production workers ran into commerce to reduce costs, increase sales, but most of them could not compete with large foreign companies. And scientific organizations in isolation from production ordered to live long. We will restore this chain.
But another question arises: do we need to produce all the equipment that we are currently purchasing in the West? For example, Sercel and Schlumberger produce seismic strips for offshore operations. They cover the demand of all service companies in the world. We can establish their production in Russia, but can we ensure the sale in foreign markets?
The problem with software (software) is more acute in Russia. Today, no subsoil user on the domestic software does not work. And this is storage, data processing, their modeling, management of all operations. If we ever face a restriction on the use of software, this will be a definite challenge.
- How serious is this challenge? What happens if, say, tomorrow we are banned from foreign software? And than it can be replaced?
- The catastrophe will not happen immediately. There is an acquired product that can be exploited for a while, but there will be no access to technical support and new versions. In Russia there are domestic analogues of software. But these are disparate programs for field material processing, modeling, well operations management. They, as a rule, are not integrated with each other. Our task is to unite them on the basis of a single platform. This work is in progress, a technical task has been developed, this year it will already be put into operation. The issue of creating domestic software is solved with the Ministry of Natural Resources, as well as companies, for example, Gazprom Neft, Rosatom. There are no problems with cadres - in Russia there is a serious school of programmers. The authors of most foreign software in the early 90's. were natives of the USSR.
- How long will it take to create your own operating system?
- According to our estimates, about three years.
- "Rosgeology" can conduct work from seismic to preparation for production. How active is the company on the shelf?
- We do not have our drilling platforms, we do not drill on the shelf. But all the rest of the equipment necessary for the work, including engineering and geological surveys for the installation of the drilling platform, we have. In addition, there is experience in attracting platforms in the market.
- Consider their acquisition?
- We are working on the issue. However, the purchase, for example, of one drilling rig is unreasonable. But if there is a pool of customers, this is a good prospect. Everything depends on demand. It is necessary to understand that the volume of orders is limited in the market of technological drilling. China has its own contractors, and Western companies are unlikely to attract a Russian company for such operations.
- Commissioning of the Yuzhno-Kirinskoye field of Gazprom is limited by the lack of technology - there are no underwater mining complexes. If Rosgeologiya was a contractor, could they solve this problem?
- We do not have a ready solution to the problem at this stage. But I am sure that when setting up such a task, it will be found. For example, we are currently conducting geological exploration work on sites with solid minerals for obligations to the International Seabed Authority. We work at a depth of 4 km under water. We have one of Russia's leading centers for the development of underwater drilling complexes in Gelendzhik, there are techniques and technologies that allow us to solve such problems. Everything depends on the terms and investments of the customer.
- How many vessels does Rosgeology have and what need?
"We have 24 vessels, including three vessels for 3D seismic and eight for 2D. In the medium term, we can potentially acquire a number of vessels for 2D seismic. With the existing fleet, we can still work in the Russian market, on the foreign one there are restrictions on the period of operation. But the situation is not critical, we have 1-2 more years to plan.
- Do you plan to place orders at the Zvezda shipyard?
- We are negotiating with colleagues about the construction of ships for 2D and 3D seismic in the future. While contracts were not concluded. We are also negotiating with the United Shipbuilding Corporation.
Exploration abroad
- What prospects do you see abroad?
- Regions of potential presence are the countries of Africa, Southeast Asia, Middle East, Latin America. There we are interested in high-margin projects, primarily marine seismic in 3D format. Last year, Rosgeology acquired a unique vessel "Academician Primakov" (formerly Western Neptune, equipped with 16 seismic locks for 3D seismic). His work is painted by the end of 2018, there are pre-contracts for 2019. Now it works in Morocco, then the transition to Sudan is planned. In the second half of July 2018, the NIS "Academician Primakov" will begin research on the Leningrad and Nyarmey sections on the Kara Sea shelf, commissioned by Gazprom Exploration.
"How much did the ship cost?"
- Under the terms of the contract, I can not disclose the amount.
- Then how many on average are such vessels on the market?
- From $ 50 million to $ 70 million.
You mentioned Latin America. But the company is not very active there.
- This is related to logistics. Our task is to load the fleet for the winter period from October to May with foreign contracts and have time to return it to the Russian market for the summer period. In Southeast Asia, our Sakhalin enterprise "Dalmorneftegeofizika" operates, in the Middle East, Africa, the Mediterranean basin - "Sevmorneftegeofizika" (base in Murmansk). To go to Latin America is more difficult and more expensive.
But if there are large contracts, then we are implementing tasks there. For example, last year they worked in the Gulf of Mexico, performed multi-client photography, about 8,000 linear kilometers of 2D seismic.
- How much time does it take to do this amount of work?
- On average, the ship makes 3,500 linear kilometers of 2D seismic per month, "Academician Primakov" performs 3D seismic on an average of 60 square meters. km per day. This is a good performance for vessels of this class. Last year, Gazprom made a large amount of work - about 4,000 square meters. km 3D seismic at the Fersmanovsky licensed area of the Barents Sea. Completed the work in less than two months. Now we are preparing to participate in tenders in three countries. I will not specify yet.
Another area of interest for us is the work in the transit zones. Most of the land and partly the shelf are explored, and the land-to-sea transition zone in recent years is of great interest to subsoil users. The accumulated experience in transit zones, as in the "Rosgeology", in Russia, no one else.
Now we are in the final stage of negotiations with the State Oil Company of Bahrain for a complex of seismic operations in transit zones. A very serious contract with a large amount of work. There are prospective customers in the sector of super-deep exploration drilling, for example, in Iran. In the solid minerals segment, this is work in the Sudan, with which we have already signed a number of contracts.
- Now many companies are interested in the shelf of the Mediterranean Sea, where several major discoveries were made. Are you planning to work there?
- The Shelf of Lebanon is potentially interesting. Experience in the Mediterranean Sea is. At one time, Sevmorneftegeofizika conducted 2D seismic surveys on the shelf of Cyprus, Libya, and Croatia. Currently, most of the work is carried out on multi-client contracts.
Competitive advantages
- Multi-client contracts - the format is rather risky, some of the costs can not pay off.
- In fact, this is a deferred investment. The mechanism of multi-client photography assumes that you are shooting, and the data can then be sold on the free market. Accordingly, obtaining a quality material of interest to market participants and successfully selling it multiply your costs. There are more risks, but margins are higher. In our portfolio of orders, about 30-35% of revenue falls on such orders. If there is a guaranteed contractual base, this does not lead to greater risks.
- In connection with which there is growing interest from the extracting companies to multi-client photography? Is it the unwillingness to independently invest in geological exploration against the background of the crisis?
- You are right, interest in this model has grown in connection with limited investment. Companies have a desire to reduce risks by shifting them to service companies. This model has long been established abroad, but it is not applicable in Russia.
The world maritime seismic market has changed a lot lately. Its structure changed, as an excess of production capacity was formed. There were serious competitors in the face of Chinese customers. Western companies, even in spite of their manufacturability, manage their costs becomes much more difficult. Many of them are experiencing financial difficulties, for example the French CGG or the Norwegian PGS. And Schlumberger plans to abandon the management of vessels and engage in the attraction of vessels to separate contracts. The one who learns how to manage his expenses will win, who will have the best cost price for providing services. In this regard, "Rosgeology" is very competitive, we have learned to manage our own costs and to load our production capacities by almost 100%.
- Due to what can you afford to compete?
"We have a small fleet, they are medium-class vessels." For example, PGS has a large high-tech fleet that can cover large areas, but it requires a lot of costs, which can lead to losses. The second reason is that we have the majority of costs in rubles, and foreign contracts in foreign currency. In addition, we have experience - our enterprises have been operating in this market for more than 50 years.
- Last year, Rosgeology and Roskosmos signed an agreement on the exchange of data from satellites. What did you agree on?
"We have always worked with Roskosmos." But the technology does not stand still, and the agreement signed last summer will expand the range of interaction. Now we want to compare the Roskosmos data on certain areas with the information that we already have. Plus, this is an opportunity to use the Glonass system on our equipment.
In addition, now we are working with the MAI, the institute offers us unmanned aerial vehicles. The use of aerial photographs can potentially reduce, on average, 25-30% of the time required for the work. But despite all the technical novelties, the geologist still has to go out into the field with heavy equipment, a rig, pass a ditch, make a selection, bring him to the laboratory, make a geochemistry, get the results of the tests. Then to drill a well and on the basis of the received data to construct a model. Then it will form the basis for the feasibility study of the site development.
Salvation of Lake Baikal
- "Rosgeology" was selected by the contractor for waste disposal of the Baikal Pulp and Paper Mill. Why does the company do this?
- The choice of "Rosgeology" is justified for a number of reasons. The main thing is that we have experience of such works, capacities, people and scientific base. We have a specialized expedition to Irkutskgeofizika, which has previously engaged in environmental monitoring of waste and water in Lake Baikal. The organization was involved in the work at the pulp and paper mill itself. Experience in eliminating waste of this class is no longer in Russia.
The pulp and paper mill consists of 12 storage cards with 6.2 million tons of waste. The customer - Irkutsk region handed us the project in late January. It requires adjustments, since a number of decisions are already outdated. For example, the project provided for the possibility of using the treatment facilities of the pulp and paper mill itself, but by the present moment they have been destroyed. There was also a destruction of the walls of some maps, a change in their chemical composition. In addition, the project does not take into account maps 11 and 12 with solid domestic waste.
In my opinion, there is a lot of speculation around the project. Do not escalate the situation. Yes, this is a unique project, there are wastes, and they need to be eliminated, but we need to intelligently approach the problem in order to effectively solve it.
- What will happen to the waste?
- Today the project provides for their homogenization. Waste is a layered pie. The lowest is lignin: pulp and paper products; further - ash, which fell down the local CHP; then there is overhead water. Still there are active chemical reagents with varying degrees of danger.
The project assumes that the over-slush water is cleaned up to the drinking water level. With this there are no questions. Some maps, filled mainly with ash dumps, can be taken out, and in the released cards, a mixture of ash and lignin, dried from water, will be homologated, i.e. mixed with cement and sand-gravel mixtures. Whether the technology will remain such or will be changed, we can say after the completion of the engineering survey. We must complete the project before 2021. Baikal is a unique and very beautiful place. One of the sunniest in Russia. Do you know that next to the pulp and paper mill, in the Irkutsk region, they grow very tasty strawberries? And on the site of this industrial site there are ideas for the creation of a tourist cluster.
- It is clear that there was no alternative, but for "Rosgeologia" it is not a commercial project, but more, probably, social.
- Certainly not commercial. At us all package of state contracts is realized with a low level of profitability. There are many similar projects in Russia, for example, the elimination of mining waste. And one of the tasks of the holding, as defined by the charter, is environmental monitoring, so I would not say that this is a completely social project, it falls within the competence of Rosgeology.
Fishing
- You have four children, they are not going to go to geological prospecting?
"They have not made their choice yet." My oldest daughter is 15 years old. You can not impose your opinion on children, you can only show by your own example. They often ask me: "Daddy, why study so many subjects in school - physics, chemistry, biology, etc.?" Why not focus on 3-4? "I answer that modern highly qualified specialists must have the whole set of knowledge to make decisions not only in their area of competence. Having only a basic set of knowledge, you are very limited in the decision making maneuver.
- How do you feel about fishing, sports?
- I love sports, I try to maintain a physical form, otherwise it's impossible to withstand intense stresses and be in good shape. I love cross-country and mountain skiing, volleyball. I play regularly. There is no time left for hunting and fishing.
- Your resource - geological prospecting - knows exactly where it bites well.
- Of course. (Laughs.) It's very rare to get out. But when it turns out, it is always effective.
"Where do you fish?"
- Krasnoyarsk Territory, Yakutia, Kamchatka, Sakhalin. The geography of these regions I know well from the experience of working in Gazprom. When he worked there, the construction of the Sakhalin-Khabarovsk-Vladivostok pipeline and the development of the Chayandinskoye field was actively underway. It was a good school and a production challenge. The experience was amazing.
- And what did you have in geography in school?
- Five. I graduated with honors.
Panov and his team developed a development strategy for the company until 2020. Its share in the domestic market of geological exploration services will grow due to commercial orders, but demand is limited: hydrocarbon producers are provided with reserves and are in no hurry to put new fields into operation. Panov notes that in 5-7 years this may become a problem for the country's mining complex. But his company needs to evolve. "Rosgeology" sees the potential abroad and, for example, in the marine seismic survey feels more than equal with foreign competitors. "We learned how to manage costs and load our production capacities by almost 100%," explains Panov.
According to Panov, the company received the highest profitability last year in contracts on offshore operations in the transit zone. And he highly assesses the prospects of the Kamchatka shelf, which, in his opinion, is underestimated by Russian oil and gas companies because of outdated data. "Our focus on the horizon of 2018-2020. should be in the Far East, "- says the general director of" Rosgeology. "
- You headed Rosgeology in 2013. As a rule, contracts are concluded for five years. Yours this year will expire?
- With me as with the chairman of the board, the contract was signed in 2015, so until 2020 we continue to work quietly. I and my team, having come to the "Rosgeology", developed its strategy until 2020. It singled out the directions that were considered the most popular, determined the steps of implementation. I can say with some pride that everything planned was fulfilled both from the point of view of planning and in terms of organizing work. The "Rosgeologia" has enormous potential. Now we have just collected assets, are engaged in their restructuring, optimization of business processes, updating of fixed assets, we are providing a regulatory basis, we are making sure steps in foreign markets.
If the holding company were not created, I can confidently say that of the assets that fell into it, about 20% would no longer exist or was in a difficult financial situation. For example, Sevmorneftegeofizika is one of the flagships of marine exploration, the company that owns the discovery of many of the largest offshore fields in Russia. When we took it on balance, it was in a pre-bankruptcy state. Due to sanctions and internal problems, customers stopped paying with it, and the debt in the moment was 4 billion rubles.
- Now, in fact, having completed the consolidation and creating the holding company, will Rosgeologiya increase its share in the Russian market?
- The whole market of geological exploration services in Russia is estimated at about 275 billion rubles. without VAT. Our share is about 13%.
The share of geophysical services in the company's revenue is up to 30%. According to the rating of the European Association of Geoscientists and Engineers (EAGE) in 2017, we took 1st place in Russia (share - 22%), 2nd place - in "TNG groups" (16%), 3rd - from Schlumberger (15%).
Our share in the Russian market can grow due to the commercial order, the potential for growth is on average 2-2.5%. The market will not give any more, as the extraction and reproduction of oil and gas companies' reserves are at a comfortable level for them. At the same time, we see the possibility of entering foreign markets.
The portfolio of Rosgeologi's orders is balanced: the ratio of commercial and government orders is 60% to 40%. Commercial contracts are evenly distributed among the largest players: Rosneft, Gazprom, in part - Lukoil, Novatek. No dependence on one customer, which allows you to effectively load capacity. Among the clients in the solid minerals sector, the main customers are Norilsk Nickel, Polymetal, Kamchatka Zolotoy, etc. However, the share of government contracts dominates here, which is related to the structure of investments: at the early stage of geological exploration the state has always been an active player.
In 2018, this balance of state and commercial orders will continue. But we see opportunities for growth in individual segments. So, for example, following the results of 2017, the highest yield was given by high-margin projects (profitability - 30-35%) - these are contracts for work on the shelf, in the transit zone.
Far East and Siberia
- If we talk about individual regions, who are your main partners in the Far East and how active is China?
- Partners - Rosneft, Gazprom. China provides its own service market entirely at the expense of its own companies. At the same time, today it is the main competitor in the international arena, not so much for us as for Western companies. All works on the shelf of China, for example, are carried out only by Chinese contractors.
- How large are gas reserves in the Far East, in particular in Sakhalin?
- The shelf of Sakhalin is very well studied, in fact it is all licensed. The resources and gas reserves are significant, they are sufficient to cover not only the needs of the Far East, but also the export potential that is there. Prospects for the growth of resources on the shelf of Sakhalin are limited, but the shelf of Kamchatka and the Magadan shelf have serious prospects.
- But recently there was information that Gazprom was ready to give up part of the licenses on the western shelf of Kamchatka. The company did not find commercially interesting stocks there.
- We are talking about the prospects of a particular site. Confirmation of commercial interest may indicate that either the areas were unsuccessfully chosen, or the primary geological and prospecting data was not enough. But I'm afraid that the whole approach to studying the shelf today is wrong. The main study of the shelf was carried out until 1991. The state represented by Rosnedra drew attention to the shelf in the early 2000s. and in small volumes continued the study. In the late 2000's. subsoil users in the person of Gazprom and Rosneft began active licensing. At the same time, drawing on the data of 20-30 years ago. In my opinion, it is advisable to analyze the geological data and, perhaps, return to those areas that were considered unpromising, to carry out reconnaissance using modern hardware systems and software processing capabilities. There are prospects for the Kamchatka shelf - this is absolutely certain. Our focus is on the horizon of 2018-2020. should be in the Far East.
- Do not you think that the interest in this region may be lower than the rest, because even if stocks are found, will it be very difficult to monetize them?
- There are Chukotka and Magadan Oblast. These are two industrial regions, where there is no own hydrocarbon resource base. In addition, there is also export potential.
- There is still growing interest in the territory of Yakutia in terms of the possible containment of hydrocarbon reserves there. How much is it justified?
- Interest in Yakutia is huge and really justified. The volume of 2D seismic that the state makes there is the largest in comparison with other regions. Next come the Krasnoyarsk Territory and the Irkutsk Region. The territory of Yakutia is large, the infrastructure is actively developing, including through the commissioning of Gazprom fields.
- That is, Yakutia is the future of Bovanenkovo? Just as now the center of prey from Nadym is shifting to Bovanenkovo?
- You answer your own question. As soon as there is a pipe, there will be opportunities. Plus, near Novatek with plans to develop a resource base. This is not only gas, but also oil. There is already an export pipe East Siberia-Pacific Ocean.
- Recently you told me that there is a great chance on the Gydan Peninsula to make a major discovery. When will the final results be obtained?
- At Gydan, we completed the drilling of the parametric well Gydanskaya-130. 12 deposits of hydrocarbon raw materials concentrated in the depth interval from 740 to 3220 m were discovered on the territory of the peninsula in Soviet times. Parametric well Gydanskaya-130 opens prospects for deeper horizons of the Mesozoic sedimentary cover. To clarify the scale of the oil and gas potential of the Paleozoic base of the north of Western Siberia, the parametric well Gydanskaya-118 is projected.
- Is there a preliminary estimate?
- Currently, the research is not completed, it is planned to conclude a state contract for testing in the production column of the 130th well to assess the productivity of the Triassic, Jurassic and Lower Cretaceous sediments.
- Then who will you give this information to?
- Customer - Rosnedra. It is planned that the object will be closed in the I quarter. Until June 1, the report will already be at Rosnedra. Then the Ministry of Natural Resources and Rosnedra will decide what to do with these areas: to put it under licensing now or later.
- Obviously, it will be interesting first of all to Novatek. In December, at the presentation of the strategy, the company told that it is possible to create a cluster on LNG production capacity of 55 million tons per year in Yamal, and in the future to reach a volume of 75 million tons.
"The question is whether the sales market will be for Russian LNG and whether it will be competitive in terms of value in the world market. We can surely provide the resources, Gydan has a huge potential. In addition, it is no less interesting for the extraction of solid minerals. About 40-45% of financing of this sector falls on the Far East, 20% - in Yakutia.
Not only oil and gas
- How many discoveries did Rosgeology make in the sector of solid minerals?
- We find resources, the next stage is the confirmation of reserves. We do not reach the level of reserves, that is, one can not talk about discoveries.
According to the results of 2017, out of 87 sites in the solid minerals sector, which we closed, we see the potential for opening medium and large deposits at 24. Now the program "Reproduction and use of natural resources" includes 20 minerals. In the conditions of the reduction of funding, seven priority ones were identified. Plans for their reproduction are carried out. But, in our opinion, the program requires revision. For example, gold requires intensification of work. The demand for deposits is high, there are virtually no large objects, and those that exist are immediately withdrawn at tenders.
- Is there a demand for rare-earth metals?
- There is demand. There are also resources. For example, in 2017 we completed the work at the Chuktukon project in the Krasnoyarsk Territory. This is one of the world's largest rare earth deposits, comparable in scale to Tomtor (Yakutia).
The question now stands in the demand for rare earth metals by the domestic economy and on foreign markets. The commissioning of such large facilities will always be reflected in the consumer market. That is, we can change the prices on the market with our own hands, not in our favor. Therefore, it is important to correctly prioritize.
- "Rosgeology" plans to work in the Crimea?
- In the Crimea, there are regional enterprises, they cope with the volume of geological exploration work that is planned there.
Exploration Economics
- The most unexplored territory in Russia is the Arctic shelf. In general, what is the supply of oil and gas in the country?
- The degree of exploration of the Arctic shelf is extremely uneven and inadequate. Relatively studied geophysical studies are the Barents Sea and the southern part of the Kara Sea. In the Laptev Sea and the East Siberian Sea, the density of geophysical profiles does not correspond even to the regional stage, so the potential increase in resources and reserves is difficult to assess even now. In terms of gas, the country is provided for 100 years ahead. With regard to oil ... On the one hand, for the next 25 years, all companies have provided oil, on the other, there are already problems with the growth of reserves in traditional production areas.
- How many resources of hydrocarbons does Rosgeologiya annually increase?
- About 2 billion tons of equivalent fuel resources of low categories. The size and rate of growth of the resource base correspond to the rates of extraction. The volumes of the area seismic survey are significant, but they require verification by exploratory and exploratory drilling, which is not enough now, with access to reserves. The deficit of these works, according to our estimates, is 40%.
- Why is this happening? Companies do not want to engage in geological exploration?
- Companies are provided with reserves, they do not have an urgent need to intensively put into operation deposits. But the slowdown in the growth of reserves may become a problem for the whole mining complex of the country in the next 5-7 years. We are even now witnessing a shortage of licensed areas: there are no large facilities in principle, and small ones are either not in demand by the market, or are left at a very high price. This is good for the budget, but bad for companies, because their costs are growing.
There is another problem. Companies understand that in order to effectively manage production costs and maintain high profitability of business, you need to have a fairly limited portfolio of stocks on your balance sheet. On average, it should equal 10 years of production. If you have stocks for more than 10 years, it starts to put pressure on your current operating costs, because you took on the license obligations to finance geological exploration work. The company wants to get the already prepared deposit, put it in a piggy bank and do nothing. But this is unprofitable for the state, since objects that can be put into operation are withdrawn from circulation, so it is very important to find a balance here.
- What prevents Rosgeology from doing exploratory drilling to confirm reserves?
- Geological exploration consists of several stages. The first stage is regional, where the geological structure of the territory is explored and the promising areas for oil and gas are identified using seismic and gravimagnetic studies. As a result, parametric wells are being laid, which are drilled to obtain information on the deep structure of the subsoil, identify possible oil and gas accumulation zones and prepare them for exploratory geological exploration work. In the next stage, 3D seismic exploration is conducted and exploratory wells are drilled, the result is discovered and prepared traps and open hydrocarbon deposits. At the final - exploration stage - complex geophysical and other methods in the drilled wells, the structure of the field is studied and exploratory wells are being drilled. The state program for the reproduction of the mineral and raw materials base allows Rosgeology to complete the search phase with parametric drilling. "Rosgeology" is the only executor of works on parametric drilling - the holding occupies 100% of the market.
In terms of costs, the exploratory and exploratory stages of geological exploration are much more expensive than regional work, which includes parametric drilling. To conduct exploration and exploration, additional funds are required, which are not provided for in the state program. But this issue is facing the government, and in my opinion, it is obvious that the state will need to carry out these works. At present, drilling of prospecting and exploratory wells is necessary for the discovery of new oil and gas fields. This is the only way to gradually increase hydrocarbon resources.
- How much money is needed for this?
- According to preliminary estimates, the state will need an additional 12-14 billion rubles. per year for exploratory and exploratory drilling.
- And if instead of state funding involve partners?
- The model of public-private partnership (PPP) requires legislative and regulatory regulation. Now the procedure for conducting geological exploration work is clearly defined: you can either conduct them at the state's expense on the undistributed fund, or you can obtain a license and take it into operation in accordance with the obligations. But objects with an unprepared resource base are of less interest to the market.
PPP works according to the following scheme: the state confirms the higher liquidity of this site with its own investments, previously made works and the quality of information about the site. In this case, the state will be guaranteed to spend roughly 1 ruble, and a private investor, for example, 3 or 5 rubles.
- You negotiated with RFPI. This scheme of work was discussed?
- RFPI could be one of the options for attracting funding. The purpose of the fund is to invest investors' funds for the long term, then to exit, fixing a certain profitability. Our current projects are risky enough that it does not fit the RFPI. Therefore, we will discuss projects in a greater degree of readiness.
Year past and new plans
- With what financial indicators did Rosgeology finish last year? What are your plans for 2018?
- 2017 we estimate as quite successful. The company has worked effectively, all the planned indicators have been fully implemented. Holding achieved a record profitability on net profit of 4.5%, EBITDA margin of 15%. We will keep these figures in 2018. Revenues in 2017 amounted to about 35 billion rubles, and taking into account assets that have not yet been transferred to the balance sheet, 38 billion rubles. The plan for this year is 41 billion rubles. We try to keep the debt / EBITDA ratio at the level of 1.1-1.5. We plan to significantly increase investments - from 5.4 billion rubles. in 2017 to 8.1 billion in 2018. This is necessary for the renewal of fixed assets. Unfortunately, we can not say that the first-class assets were consolidated into the holding, as they are mainly enterprises with a fairly worn-out fund, which requires modernization.
- Or maybe not upgrade, but buy new ones? Did not consider buying Eurasia Drilling Company (EDC)?
- We consider different options. Do you think EDC does not have a worn out fund? The service life of the drilling rig in the deposits of solid minerals is seven years. So this is the time when it works for you, after that you should already work for the spare part. If we talk about seismic equipment, today in the bidding documents customers indicate the requirements for equipment - not older than three years. That is, every three years I have to throw out the old, put the new on balance.
Over the past three years, the quality of equipment "Rosgeology" has improved. So, before worn by individual funds reached up to 87%, and on average the holding was above 70%, today - below 50%.
- What is the target?
- It does not exceed 20-24%, which corresponds to the world practice. For example, Schlumberger has 24%. Returning to the topic of EDC - in fact, we did not study the company. The question is in the EDC contract base, the condition of fixed assets and the stability of the order. Potentially, any transaction for Rosgeologiya can be of interest if it fits into the holding's model. Regions of our strategic presence are the Far East, Eastern Siberia, so last year, for example, we carried out work on the acquisition of Yakutskgeofizika.
Two sides of import substitution
- Does "Rosgeology" strongly depend on foreign equipment?
- We use foreign equipment, but I do not see a critical dependence. We are pursuing a policy to restore our competences in the field of equipment manufacturing. If we can build a rocket and launch it into space, we will solve this problem. The domestic school of production of equipment for the oil and gas complex has always been strong. Demand for him was, including abroad. But at a certain stage, scientific and production ties collapsed. When the scientific organization was torn from production facilities, the production workers ran into commerce to reduce costs, increase sales, but most of them could not compete with large foreign companies. And scientific organizations in isolation from production ordered to live long. We will restore this chain.
But another question arises: do we need to produce all the equipment that we are currently purchasing in the West? For example, Sercel and Schlumberger produce seismic strips for offshore operations. They cover the demand of all service companies in the world. We can establish their production in Russia, but can we ensure the sale in foreign markets?
The problem with software (software) is more acute in Russia. Today, no subsoil user on the domestic software does not work. And this is storage, data processing, their modeling, management of all operations. If we ever face a restriction on the use of software, this will be a definite challenge.
- How serious is this challenge? What happens if, say, tomorrow we are banned from foreign software? And than it can be replaced?
- The catastrophe will not happen immediately. There is an acquired product that can be exploited for a while, but there will be no access to technical support and new versions. In Russia there are domestic analogues of software. But these are disparate programs for field material processing, modeling, well operations management. They, as a rule, are not integrated with each other. Our task is to unite them on the basis of a single platform. This work is in progress, a technical task has been developed, this year it will already be put into operation. The issue of creating domestic software is solved with the Ministry of Natural Resources, as well as companies, for example, Gazprom Neft, Rosatom. There are no problems with cadres - in Russia there is a serious school of programmers. The authors of most foreign software in the early 90's. were natives of the USSR.
- How long will it take to create your own operating system?
- According to our estimates, about three years.
- "Rosgeology" can conduct work from seismic to preparation for production. How active is the company on the shelf?
- We do not have our drilling platforms, we do not drill on the shelf. But all the rest of the equipment necessary for the work, including engineering and geological surveys for the installation of the drilling platform, we have. In addition, there is experience in attracting platforms in the market.
- Consider their acquisition?
- We are working on the issue. However, the purchase, for example, of one drilling rig is unreasonable. But if there is a pool of customers, this is a good prospect. Everything depends on demand. It is necessary to understand that the volume of orders is limited in the market of technological drilling. China has its own contractors, and Western companies are unlikely to attract a Russian company for such operations.
- Commissioning of the Yuzhno-Kirinskoye field of Gazprom is limited by the lack of technology - there are no underwater mining complexes. If Rosgeologiya was a contractor, could they solve this problem?
- We do not have a ready solution to the problem at this stage. But I am sure that when setting up such a task, it will be found. For example, we are currently conducting geological exploration work on sites with solid minerals for obligations to the International Seabed Authority. We work at a depth of 4 km under water. We have one of Russia's leading centers for the development of underwater drilling complexes in Gelendzhik, there are techniques and technologies that allow us to solve such problems. Everything depends on the terms and investments of the customer.
- How many vessels does Rosgeology have and what need?
"We have 24 vessels, including three vessels for 3D seismic and eight for 2D. In the medium term, we can potentially acquire a number of vessels for 2D seismic. With the existing fleet, we can still work in the Russian market, on the foreign one there are restrictions on the period of operation. But the situation is not critical, we have 1-2 more years to plan.
- Do you plan to place orders at the Zvezda shipyard?
- We are negotiating with colleagues about the construction of ships for 2D and 3D seismic in the future. While contracts were not concluded. We are also negotiating with the United Shipbuilding Corporation.
Exploration abroad
- What prospects do you see abroad?
- Regions of potential presence are the countries of Africa, Southeast Asia, Middle East, Latin America. There we are interested in high-margin projects, primarily marine seismic in 3D format. Last year, Rosgeology acquired a unique vessel "Academician Primakov" (formerly Western Neptune, equipped with 16 seismic locks for 3D seismic). His work is painted by the end of 2018, there are pre-contracts for 2019. Now it works in Morocco, then the transition to Sudan is planned. In the second half of July 2018, the NIS "Academician Primakov" will begin research on the Leningrad and Nyarmey sections on the Kara Sea shelf, commissioned by Gazprom Exploration.
"How much did the ship cost?"
- Under the terms of the contract, I can not disclose the amount.
- Then how many on average are such vessels on the market?
- From $ 50 million to $ 70 million.
You mentioned Latin America. But the company is not very active there.
- This is related to logistics. Our task is to load the fleet for the winter period from October to May with foreign contracts and have time to return it to the Russian market for the summer period. In Southeast Asia, our Sakhalin enterprise "Dalmorneftegeofizika" operates, in the Middle East, Africa, the Mediterranean basin - "Sevmorneftegeofizika" (base in Murmansk). To go to Latin America is more difficult and more expensive.
But if there are large contracts, then we are implementing tasks there. For example, last year they worked in the Gulf of Mexico, performed multi-client photography, about 8,000 linear kilometers of 2D seismic.
- How much time does it take to do this amount of work?
- On average, the ship makes 3,500 linear kilometers of 2D seismic per month, "Academician Primakov" performs 3D seismic on an average of 60 square meters. km per day. This is a good performance for vessels of this class. Last year, Gazprom made a large amount of work - about 4,000 square meters. km 3D seismic at the Fersmanovsky licensed area of the Barents Sea. Completed the work in less than two months. Now we are preparing to participate in tenders in three countries. I will not specify yet.
Another area of interest for us is the work in the transit zones. Most of the land and partly the shelf are explored, and the land-to-sea transition zone in recent years is of great interest to subsoil users. The accumulated experience in transit zones, as in the "Rosgeology", in Russia, no one else.
Now we are in the final stage of negotiations with the State Oil Company of Bahrain for a complex of seismic operations in transit zones. A very serious contract with a large amount of work. There are prospective customers in the sector of super-deep exploration drilling, for example, in Iran. In the solid minerals segment, this is work in the Sudan, with which we have already signed a number of contracts.
- Now many companies are interested in the shelf of the Mediterranean Sea, where several major discoveries were made. Are you planning to work there?
- The Shelf of Lebanon is potentially interesting. Experience in the Mediterranean Sea is. At one time, Sevmorneftegeofizika conducted 2D seismic surveys on the shelf of Cyprus, Libya, and Croatia. Currently, most of the work is carried out on multi-client contracts.
Competitive advantages
- Multi-client contracts - the format is rather risky, some of the costs can not pay off.
- In fact, this is a deferred investment. The mechanism of multi-client photography assumes that you are shooting, and the data can then be sold on the free market. Accordingly, obtaining a quality material of interest to market participants and successfully selling it multiply your costs. There are more risks, but margins are higher. In our portfolio of orders, about 30-35% of revenue falls on such orders. If there is a guaranteed contractual base, this does not lead to greater risks.
- In connection with which there is growing interest from the extracting companies to multi-client photography? Is it the unwillingness to independently invest in geological exploration against the background of the crisis?
- You are right, interest in this model has grown in connection with limited investment. Companies have a desire to reduce risks by shifting them to service companies. This model has long been established abroad, but it is not applicable in Russia.
The world maritime seismic market has changed a lot lately. Its structure changed, as an excess of production capacity was formed. There were serious competitors in the face of Chinese customers. Western companies, even in spite of their manufacturability, manage their costs becomes much more difficult. Many of them are experiencing financial difficulties, for example the French CGG or the Norwegian PGS. And Schlumberger plans to abandon the management of vessels and engage in the attraction of vessels to separate contracts. The one who learns how to manage his expenses will win, who will have the best cost price for providing services. In this regard, "Rosgeology" is very competitive, we have learned to manage our own costs and to load our production capacities by almost 100%.
- Due to what can you afford to compete?
"We have a small fleet, they are medium-class vessels." For example, PGS has a large high-tech fleet that can cover large areas, but it requires a lot of costs, which can lead to losses. The second reason is that we have the majority of costs in rubles, and foreign contracts in foreign currency. In addition, we have experience - our enterprises have been operating in this market for more than 50 years.
- Last year, Rosgeology and Roskosmos signed an agreement on the exchange of data from satellites. What did you agree on?
"We have always worked with Roskosmos." But the technology does not stand still, and the agreement signed last summer will expand the range of interaction. Now we want to compare the Roskosmos data on certain areas with the information that we already have. Plus, this is an opportunity to use the Glonass system on our equipment.
In addition, now we are working with the MAI, the institute offers us unmanned aerial vehicles. The use of aerial photographs can potentially reduce, on average, 25-30% of the time required for the work. But despite all the technical novelties, the geologist still has to go out into the field with heavy equipment, a rig, pass a ditch, make a selection, bring him to the laboratory, make a geochemistry, get the results of the tests. Then to drill a well and on the basis of the received data to construct a model. Then it will form the basis for the feasibility study of the site development.
Salvation of Lake Baikal
- "Rosgeology" was selected by the contractor for waste disposal of the Baikal Pulp and Paper Mill. Why does the company do this?
- The choice of "Rosgeology" is justified for a number of reasons. The main thing is that we have experience of such works, capacities, people and scientific base. We have a specialized expedition to Irkutskgeofizika, which has previously engaged in environmental monitoring of waste and water in Lake Baikal. The organization was involved in the work at the pulp and paper mill itself. Experience in eliminating waste of this class is no longer in Russia.
The pulp and paper mill consists of 12 storage cards with 6.2 million tons of waste. The customer - Irkutsk region handed us the project in late January. It requires adjustments, since a number of decisions are already outdated. For example, the project provided for the possibility of using the treatment facilities of the pulp and paper mill itself, but by the present moment they have been destroyed. There was also a destruction of the walls of some maps, a change in their chemical composition. In addition, the project does not take into account maps 11 and 12 with solid domestic waste.
In my opinion, there is a lot of speculation around the project. Do not escalate the situation. Yes, this is a unique project, there are wastes, and they need to be eliminated, but we need to intelligently approach the problem in order to effectively solve it.
- What will happen to the waste?
- Today the project provides for their homogenization. Waste is a layered pie. The lowest is lignin: pulp and paper products; further - ash, which fell down the local CHP; then there is overhead water. Still there are active chemical reagents with varying degrees of danger.
The project assumes that the over-slush water is cleaned up to the drinking water level. With this there are no questions. Some maps, filled mainly with ash dumps, can be taken out, and in the released cards, a mixture of ash and lignin, dried from water, will be homologated, i.e. mixed with cement and sand-gravel mixtures. Whether the technology will remain such or will be changed, we can say after the completion of the engineering survey. We must complete the project before 2021. Baikal is a unique and very beautiful place. One of the sunniest in Russia. Do you know that next to the pulp and paper mill, in the Irkutsk region, they grow very tasty strawberries? And on the site of this industrial site there are ideas for the creation of a tourist cluster.
- It is clear that there was no alternative, but for "Rosgeologia" it is not a commercial project, but more, probably, social.
- Certainly not commercial. At us all package of state contracts is realized with a low level of profitability. There are many similar projects in Russia, for example, the elimination of mining waste. And one of the tasks of the holding, as defined by the charter, is environmental monitoring, so I would not say that this is a completely social project, it falls within the competence of Rosgeology.
Fishing
- You have four children, they are not going to go to geological prospecting?
"They have not made their choice yet." My oldest daughter is 15 years old. You can not impose your opinion on children, you can only show by your own example. They often ask me: "Daddy, why study so many subjects in school - physics, chemistry, biology, etc.?" Why not focus on 3-4? "I answer that modern highly qualified specialists must have the whole set of knowledge to make decisions not only in their area of competence. Having only a basic set of knowledge, you are very limited in the decision making maneuver.
- How do you feel about fishing, sports?
- I love sports, I try to maintain a physical form, otherwise it's impossible to withstand intense stresses and be in good shape. I love cross-country and mountain skiing, volleyball. I play regularly. There is no time left for hunting and fishing.
- Your resource - geological prospecting - knows exactly where it bites well.
- Of course. (Laughs.) It's very rare to get out. But when it turns out, it is always effective.
"Where do you fish?"
- Krasnoyarsk Territory, Yakutia, Kamchatka, Sakhalin. The geography of these regions I know well from the experience of working in Gazprom. When he worked there, the construction of the Sakhalin-Khabarovsk-Vladivostok pipeline and the development of the Chayandinskoye field was actively underway. It was a good school and a production challenge. The experience was amazing.
- And what did you have in geography in school?
- Five. I graduated with honors.
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